WIth reference to “RAF recruits paid compensation for marching injuries” thread. Thanks Moderators. You are the first to criticise and stop comments and police the forum.
Fine.
But if a subject is locked, then have the common decency to abide by your own rules instead of adding another comment; which clearly was meant to be pithy but was just childish.
Have the balls to open up thread again completely.
I’ll reply on behalf of the mods.
Firstly I locked the topic due to the continued personal comments being made to justify the thrust of a post. A warning had been issued and was duely acted on.
I can see your point about moderators posting into locked threads and agree that it can seem like “one rule for us, on for the users” but its not the case. The moderator posted information direct from HQAC that was relevent to the topic and did not need further discussion. The source was posted so that users can cross referrence if needed.
On a secondary note, and please do not take this as having a go at you or being pedantic, but in the AUP there is guidance on the action to take if your unhappy with the actions of a moderator. This should be followed and this kind of post is not a part of that process.
I will leave this thread open for now, in the hope that you can see we try to do the right things and we are happy to justify our actions to the users. If it starts to become a mod bashing thread though it will be locked and removed.
Op Ex.
[quote=“Racing Stick” post=13817]WIth reference to “RAF recruits paid compensation for marching injuries” thread. Thanks Moderators. You are the first to criticise and stop comments and police the forum.
Fine.
But if a subject is locked, then have the common decency to abide by your own rules instead of adding another comment; which clearly was meant to be pithy but was just childish.
Have the balls to open up thread again completely.[/quote]
Bingo. Best post on here in ages, the double standards the mods here employ are shocking. I’ve said in the past that snide comments, digs, and heavy handed moderation will drive away users.
You’ve shown a prime example in the marching thread and I was going to post the same as you but thought, whats the point? They aren’t going to change. Perhaps they will when they only have themselves to moderate.
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=13828][quote=“Racing Stick” post=13817]WIth reference to “RAF recruits paid compensation for marching injuries” thread. Thanks Moderators. You are the first to criticise and stop comments and police the forum.
Fine.
But if a subject is locked, then have the common decency to abide by your own rules instead of adding another comment; which clearly was meant to be pithy but was just childish.
Have the balls to open up thread again completely.[/quote]
Bingo. Best post on here in ages, the double standards the mods here employ are shocking. I’ve said in the past that snide comments, digs, and heavy handed moderation will drive away users.
You’ve shown a prime example in the marching thread and I was going to post the same as you but thought, whats the point? They aren’t going to change. Perhaps they will when they only have themselves to moderate.[/quote]
I’m not going to rise to the bait in your post. If you feel that way please feel free not to log on and leave us to “moderate ourselves”.
No bait. Statement of fact. I’ve reported the mods before for making personal attacks on members or their questions and frankly it is not on.
I’ll bite first:
Ah excellent, another “I didn’t agree with something and so it must be unfair” post.
If you want to do a better job then us, put your money where your mouth is and become a moderator. If you can’t be bothered but want to sit behind your computer screens and criticise everything we do, then I question why you come here.
You all wanted stricter moderation when we moved to this new board. Now you’re complaining we’re too strict!
We’re never going to please everyone, and unfortunately that sometimes means YOU get the raw deal. That’s life, deal with it guys.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to sit here and try to pacify people anymore. I try to be as helpful as I can, not flame new members for old questions, try to moderate fairly and not kick up a fuss where we can just have a quiet word. But guess what? WE’RE ALL HUMAN. We make mistakes, just like you guys do.
I, as many of the regular members do, work full time. Then I “work” around 15-20 hours a week extra, on average, on ATC stuff. Then, in MY SPARE TIME, I try to help this place be a useful resource for others who, like me, just want to share community spirit, good practice and ideas and maybe even network with people close by.
I posted in the thread you’re both talking about to try and give a final word from the horses mouth about some of the (genuine) debate there and how it effects us. Once we’d crossed the line in to who is better than who, whether the claimant was right and the personal attacks on someone not here who can’t defend themselves and other board members, it was locked (not by me I hasten to add).
I removed my anonymity because you guys asked for it. I tried to remain impartial to all, and approachable to all, and it’s still not enough for some of you. Well I’ve had enough. I quit. Moderate yourselves.
Someone needs a hug.
In fairness though you are by far the most even handed mod.
I’m out too. Ill be creating a new profile and using that instead. I really question why some people are on here when they contribute zero to the forum. They must be very sad individuals to return here.
I have to say that several weeks ago, I happened to take a different stance to one of the mods (no names, no pack drills) and my post was not only deleted, but I also found that my karma had reduced by at least 5 in the space of half an hour! I made a comment about this at the time, which was also quickly removed but not before I received a pm from another member to say that the same had happened to him.
In essence mods, you act as the Chairmen of the debates on this site and it’s your job to ensure that discussions are even handed and don’t get into personal slagging matches, which for the most part, you do. However, you won’t always agree with everything that’s said and sometimes, people may take a particular dislike to something you have said. But you’ve got to rise above it more than we have to. Please don’t use the power that you have to stifle discussion.
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=13837]Someone needs a hug.
In fairness though you are by far the most even handed mod.[/quote]
Most ban points on this forum
Pretty severe karma
I can see why they like you so much :evil:
[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=13847][quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=13837]Someone needs a hug.
In fairness though you are by far the most even handed mod.[/quote]
Most ban points on this forum
Pretty severe karma
I can see why they like you so much :evil:[/quote]
It’s because he tells the truth.
If the Moderators don’t like being told fact then perhaps they should all leave. I stand by my point that the reply after locking the thread was childish and an abuse of power. What an excellent example to set.
They are the arbitrators and should be above such cynicisms, but apparently not.
I fail to see how a factual (Sharepoint quote) post by a moderator after a thread has been locked can be seen as judgemental, bad, or an abuse of power.
It “closed” the thread in a perfect way that provided useful information, did not in any way point at any previous poster or introduce a confrontational aspect that no one else could subsequently reply to. It happens on other forum websites too.
However, the final comment (#39) by Operation Nimrod was guaranteed to upset some people (regardless of any specific point of view) & should not have been made. It might be prudent to moderate (delete) that final post.
I don’t want to not say anything here. Seeing as I was one of the argumentative persons in that thread I agree with its closing entirely. Absolutely no good was going to come from that debate. With regard to the posts which followed closing, I agree with MikeJenvey’s view.
But. It is my view that none of that warranted this public attack on the mods. There are a few mods who post under their mod name, like PEP and Nimrod, which they only do because ServicalSmeer kicked up so much of a fuss. And now they’re giving up. The mods who put their neck on the line have been forced out by two people who do little more than throw their weight around here.
I don’t want those two mods to think that that the opinions of those two are shared by everyone here. They do not speak for me. You do a difficult job applying cool reason to adjudicate heated debate. Which will only result in unpopularity. So, if you are leaving. Thank you for giving up your time to do a thankless task.
The point here is fundamentally they messed up with the handling of that thread and pride/power trip prevents them admitting this.
What they should have done is locked the thread and then posted the sharepoint info in a new thread. They could have made it a sticky even. And if they wanted they could have locked it after 1 post.
[quote=“sirvicalsmeer” post=13855]The point here is fundamentally they messed up with the handling of that thread and pride/power trip prevents them admitting this.
What they should have done is locked the thread and then posted the sharepoint info in a new thread. They could have made it a sticky even. And if they wanted they could have locked it after 1 post.[/quote]
Yes, but that was not the thrust of the start of THIS thread. That was a slag off match on the Moderators. What was needed was simply a thread to ask why were those two posts added on the end. Instead it only got round to becoming a sensible debate afterwards.
No, I moderate on another forum and the mods should never have behaved in the way they did. Unfortunately there is little room for error in moderation and unhelpful comments like the last one posted by the mod only ever fuel flames. Act like that and you will get threads like the OP started.
If they’d handled it correctly then this thread would never have existed.
I’ve refrained until now from saying anything but I have to agree that on occasion, there appears to be double standards employed by some of the moderation team. When it happens, why do the mods appear surprised that certain elements of the membership seize upon it and wonder why they (the mods) end up being bashed?
Moderation ISN’T easy and no-one is saying it is (I’m a senior moderator on a lively US forum and THAT is…challenging…to say the least) but if you stick your head above the parapet, expect to have it shot at. At least have the ability to take criticism when members make their feelings known.
Learn from your mistakes, have the good grace to apologise and move on instead of resigning in a fit of pique or threatening to delete the very thread that elements of the membership are venting its collective frustration on.
As far as I’m concerned, the biggest frustration for me next to the occasional act of double-standards, is the anonimity that all the mods with the exception of pEp and Batfink, hide behind.
Mods are accountable to the masses and as SVS says, without those masses, there wouldn’t be a forum to moderate.
I would like to address some of the points that have been made with regards to moderation, here and elsewhere (including PMs/reports):
[ul]
[li]Nimrod’s post in compensation thread: It wasn’t worth reopening the thread for and has been removed. When the forum doesn’t stop you it is easy to post where you should not. Additionally, iff someone PMs me a high quality post, I will reopen the thread. [/li]
[li]The anonymity of mods: This is a historical thing and existed for a good reason. The reasons behind it have mostly expired, but it remains because you cannot give someone anonymity then take it away. I used to be known as “Do you think that’s wise?”, but left that behind because it was a stupid name and I wanted to move on. However, the loss of my ‘anonymity’ means nothing, as it only links two handles together neither of which I use in real life.
Unless they choose not to be, every user on this forum is anonymous, and that is largely a good thing.[/li]
[li]Quality of moderation: A moderator has to deal with three types of users: Spammers (which are banned on sight), Trolls (which are warned then banned) and Normal Users (who just need a nudge if they cross the line). With their username and inflammatory posts I have decided that sirvicalsmeer is a troll and has been banned. As a moderator on another forum they should understand. I actually hope they come back, with a better username and with a change in attitude. They could see this as an opportunity to reduce their ban points and increase their karma! ;)[/li]
[li]I am also going to move this thread somewhere more appropriate[/li]
[/ul]
I hope that this resolves any issues, and I would like to point out that this should really have been handled with reports and PMs.
For one, I’m unable to agree with anything you’ve said.
Firstly, Nimrod unlocking the thread, posting and then re-locking it, was unacceptable. I can however, see the reason behind the penultimate post but as has been mentioned, it could have been made in a new thread or by creating a ‘sticky’.
Secondly, you’ve stated that the mods anonimity will stay if they choose because most of the users here also have anonimity due to the use of usernames. Well, I for one, am known to both my ex-Wing (I’ve transferred as of today outwith the ATC) and HQAC. Have they given me a hard time over anything I’ve ever posted? No. Therefore I’m unable to see any valid reason why mods should choose to remain anonymous, when as you say, the historical reasons have ‘expired’.
Thirdly, whilst not always agreeing with sirvicalsmeer, this time I feel he has a point and now you’ve banned him for daring to air it.
In recent years, I’ve seen a shift in mods attitudes and approaches to those who dare speak out against them. The mod team has a reputation for circling the wagons and protecting their own even when individual actions have bordered on the outrageous. To suggest that any complaints or issues be dealt with by way of PM is simply papering over the cracks and allows the team to fob people off. That practice, solves nothing. The wider membership - especially those who may have felt wronged in the past - don’t have an opportunity to come forward and air their grievances if they’ve experienced similar issues with mods.
So what now? Am I too to be banned simply for speaking my mind? Or is it that as a result of this mini-rebellion, it could be hoped that the mod team and site owner will review past conduct, put in place new methods of moderating, create a code of conduct for ALL mods and move forward with transparency?
Somehow, I doubt the latter will happen.
Of course there is a way to prevent all this hiding behind anonymity.
Remove user names and have proper names for everyone.
I don’t have a problem with it. No problem at all. When I first heard of the forum I was unaware it was anonymous.
Let’s have proper names and identity proved then everyone, NOT just moderators can be see for who they are.
If you have nothing to hide and are prepared to stand up and stand by your opinions then what’s the problem.
Thoughts?