New Years Honour Lists - CFAV Civil v Military Lists

Perusing the recently released NYHL it’s noticeable that RAFAC CFAV recipients are listed in the military list, whereas ACF and SCC CFAV are listed in the Civil list.

Does anyone know why this is? I believe that there are many more hoops to get through to gain an award via the military process in comparison to civilian and whilst I’m sure all those recognised are equally deserving I wonder why the process appears to differ dependent on the uniform now we should be all one happy CFAV cadre!

I was told some years ago -circa 10 probably that the RAFAC were allocated 4 gongs a year and each region had its turn. I was also told if you want a gong, to find 10 friends to write up a letter saying you were a great egg doing wonders for the community and youth etc and not to mention the ATC or armed forces and you could have a nice shiny civil MBE or OBE or BEM. Using the civil route bypasses MoD, the RAF and HQAC and therefore you actually have a chance of getting formal recognition.

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In this case however the recipients on the Civil list from ACF and SCC are being recognised for their involvement with those organisations so it doesn’t seem to be an attempt to bypass process

The simple answer is that we should not be appointed to the Military Division according to the Statutes of the Order on the Central Chancery website.

I’d lay good money that the difference between reservist uniformed CFAV and civilian uniformed CFAV has never been properly explained to the relevant powers hence they think we are members of an Air Force.

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You need to look again. All officers receive Honours in the Military Division.
O.B.E.
To be Ordinary Officers of the Military Division of the said
Most Excellent Order:
Lieutenant Colonel Nicholas David Guise COWLEY,
M.B.E., The Queen’s Royal Hussars, 548513.
Colonel Michael Terence DUFF, T.D., V.R., Army Reserve, 534045.
Lieutenant Colonel John HANSON, M.B.E., Corps of Royal Electrical
and Mechanical Engineers, 559459.
Lieutenant Colonel Mark Anthony HARRISON, Corps of Royal
Engineers, 563786.
Acting Colonel David James KANE, Army Cadet Force, 528630.
Lieutenant Colonel Thomas MORAN, Royal Corps of Signals, 561783.
Lieutenant Colonel Linda Elizabeth ORR, Royal Army Medical Corps,
530674.

Those receiving Honours on the Civil List are either SNCOs or full time employees.

Regarding the SCC although their officers never had the Queen’s Commission they were always included, as now on the Military List.
M.B.E.
To be Ordinary Members of the Military Division of the said
Most Excellent Order:
Warrant Officer Class 1 Engineering Technician (Communications
Information Systems Submarines) David Kevin ANNAN, Royal Navy,
D196468Y.
Warrant Officer 2 Brian DENT, Royal Marines, P042412K.
Commander Justin HAINS, Royal Navy, C037031K.
Commander (Acting Captain) Mark HANKEY, R.D., Royal Naval
Reserve, C993669U.
Commander Andrew Barry PERKS, Royal Navy, C041153Y.
Commander Justin Robert Ernest SAWARD, Royal Navy, C038208D.
Lieutenant Commander (Acting Commander) Suzanna Jane
SEAGRAVE, Royal Navy, V030873G.
Warrant Officer Class 1 Engineering Technician (Marine Engineering)
Nicholas Richard SHARLAND, Royal Navy, D208483C.
Colour Sergeant Samuel SHERIFF, Royal Marines, P056827G.
Lieutenant Janice SPICER, Royal Naval Reserve (Sea Cadet Corps),
A005359J.

Take a look at the Civil List :

Major Kim Elizabeth HUMBERSTONE

Deputy Director, Financial Reporting and Control, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. For public service and for services to Young People through the Army Cadet Force
(Hertfordshire)

Bryan Owen Anthony CATCHPOLE

Cadet Administrative Assistant, Devon Army Cadet Force. For services to Young People
(Devon)

(This gentleman holds a CFAV commission)

He may well do but his award is for his civilian job with the ACF.

Lieutenant Colonel Ray Morris OGG

For services to the Combined Cadet Forces and to the Department for Work and Pensions
(Lincolnshire)

——

Is the actual answer that if someone receives an award for both their civilian and ‘military’ endeavours that they appear on the Civil list?

My god, I know Ray Ogg.

I believe that is correct. I must admit it is a pet hate of mine when people who receive an award on the civil list wear the military division ribbon.

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It’s just plain wrong that.

Yes.

Its noticeable that Carol Vorderman wears the Civil MBE ribbon, however as a female recipient she would have been presented with it mounted on a bow, rather than on a ribbon as per males and female military recipients. As dress regs probably do not cater for this eventuality it’s probably correct.

I should point out the above was awarded a BEM and there is no Military Division for the medal.

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As was Ray Ogg’s award.

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There was a Colonel appointed to be a CBE in the NYH List. He’s now a Brigadier and Head of the Army Air Corps.

He was on my FT1 way back in 1992. Cpl, RAF Regiment to Brigadier and head of the AAC isn’t bad going.

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Where did you go wrong mate? :wink:

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They asked me if I wanted the job. I said: ‘nah’.

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