New volunteer straight into Commission?

[kitkat]

Good morning, I have a potential new member of staff that would like to join straight into uniform as an officer - An ex Air Cadet (longtime ago) and certainly has the right skillsets. I know some wings frown on joining into uniform, but I cant find the rules anyway

[JoeBloggs]

ACP 20 lists the entry requirements for CI, SNCO and Officer.

Anyone can go direct CI or SNCO, those with previous experience can go direct officer. I can’t remember what the exact 'previous experience ’ is, you’ll have to check the ACP on that one, as I’m on my phone!

[Chief_Tech]

@kitkat

I know some wings frown on joining into uniform, but I cant find the rules anyway

I think you can apply to go straight into uniform although it can be a bit longer with commissioned.

However I’m always wary of those who wanted to go straight into uniform as the wait factor can be a good safeguard whilst you get to understand their character unless they are personally known & vouched for.

I had two new staff both ex-military & wanting to go straight into uniform. Both were completely unsuitable as volunteers & were difficult enough to remove as CIs so I shudder to think what they would have done if granted that extra authority.

There’s no reason you can’t say to them that you will start the commissioning process immediately developing them in a role for those skills.

Importantly whilst an ex cadets previous experience is great it’s what they can do now rather than what they use to be able to do.

[themajor]

@ACP 20 PI 201

Potential commissioning applicants must fill one of the following criteria:

a. Cadets and SC will be able to apply to become a CFAV as either a CI, SNCO or officer subject to being 18 years of age and having completed post-16 education.

b. Any person who becomes a CFAV is unable to return to SC status.

c. Ex ATC cadets will not ordinarily be permitted to be a CFAV at the sqn at which they were previously a cadet until they are 20. Where an ex-ATC cadet wants to be CFAV and ultimately return to their old sqn, it is the new (temporary) sqn who should be involved with the CFAV application (to ensure independent assessment and as the temporary sqn will be holding the new CFAV against their establishment). Exceptions to serve as a CFAV at the sqn they were previously a cadet before the age of 20 (possibly due to a lack of other sqns in the local area) will only be permitted with the agreement of the applicant, OC Sqn and OC Wg, with necessary records retained on SMS, and after an air gap of between 6 to 12 months.

d. Be serving in the RAFAC, and served at least 12 months, as a non-commissioned officer; WO/FS/Sgt.

e. Be serving in the RAFAC, and served at least 12 months, as a Civilian Instructor (CI).

f. Be an ex-cadet who has reached the rank of CWO, FS or Sgt and who has served as a cadet for a minimum of 4 years and is aged between 20 and 25. If the time limit is exceeded, ex-cadets must be appointed as either a CI or SNCO, and serve at least 3 months, prior to putting in a commissioning application.

d. Under exceptional circumstances, where previous experience and skills are deemed appropriate for CFAV service, Civilian Committee members may be considered for commission if they have served at least 12 months and are known to the chain of command. Requests for such appointments are to be made in writing, with full justification on their suitability to the Rgnl Comdt, who is to then seek authorisation from DCOS Spt at HQ RAFAC.

My bold.

My advice would be to complete JOIN application for a CI, and as soon as that is approved submit the paperwork for Commission that would result in not being appointed within that first 3 month period.

Knowing how long it takes locally it’ll be a minimum of 6 weeks for Wing Filter followed by the wait for Region Board.

[kitkat]

Just read the same… thanks

[JustCallMeFlight]

@Chief_Tech

However I’m always wary of those who wanted to go straight into uniform

Why do attitudes like this prevail in a uniformed organisation?

[JoeBloggs]

Inb4 CI vs uniform debate…

[Chief_Tech]

@JustCallMeFlight

Why do attitudes like this prevail in a uniformed organisation

Because I use to be trusting but was badly bitten.

You have less of a risk in reserves or regulars as the Walter Mitty types have to jump through a little more hoops and when they are in they are not directly in a position of authority relatively quickly as the rank structure & training requirements for promotion puts a natural delay & allows character assessment.

It’s just the need to be professionally wary otherwise you end up Wayne Couzens & the like being let in.

@ACP 20 PI 201

who has served as a cadet for a minimum of 4 years and is aged between 20 and 25. If the time limit is exceeded, ex-cadets must be appointed as either a CI or SNCO, and serve at least 3 months, prior to putting in a commissioning application.

Yep this works - ensures the cadet can be vouched for & has the appropriate experience.

I would always say though that even if a person has to wait, a Sqn should still be develop the volunteer for the role that they want to go into so if commissioning they need coaching on the ACTO94 stuff etc.

no need to wait until someone is in post before you start developing them.

[Nucleotide]

Do we imagine this rule would still apply if you were a Cdt on a Sqn many years ago.

Let’s say hypothetically you were a Cdt at 123 Sqn between 2006-2012. Surely by this point multiple generations of Cdts have gone through the Sqn so you’d only potentially know long term CFAVs.

@ACP 20 PI 201

Where an ex-ATC cadet wants to be CFAV and ultimately return to their old sqn, it is the new (temporary) sqn who should be involved with the CFAV application (to ensure independent assessment and as the temporary sqn will be holding the new CFAV against their establishment).

[themajor]

@ACP 20 PI 201

Ex ATC cadets will not ordinarily be permitted to be a CFAV at the sqn at which they were previously a cadet until they are 20

You missed the first sentence, where this only applies if the ex cadet is under 20

[GCMandrake]

@Chief_Tech

However I’m always wary of those who wanted to go straight into uniform as the wait factor can be a good safeguard whilst you get to understand their character unless they are personally known & vouched for.

I read that as walt factor

This autumn on ITV…

[JustCallMeFlight]

@Chief_Tech

You have less of a risk in reserves or regulars as the Walter Mitty types have to jump through a little more hoops and when they are in they are not directly in a position of authority relatively quickly as the rank structure & training requirements for promotion puts a natural delay & allows character assessment.

It’s just the need to be professionally wary otherwise you end up Wayne Couzens & the like being let in.

Actually, that makes a lot of sense. Personally, I think there are better solutions than forcing people down the CI route (ACF model with PIs, in uniform but with no rank, introducing ranks below sgt, etc.) but, working within the system as it is, I now fully understand and appreciate your position.