It’s not the worst idea, but due to the variations in what people do at those levels it would need to be so vague as to be meaningless. (Why would you want a Wing DofE Officer to go on a Blues Camp when they could be running a Gold Expedition for example).
A simple review of hours would make sense but even then how would that account for a Wing Shooting Officer who spends a big chunk of their volunteering at home being the SPO?
i can get behind this if the CoC has the guts to say “no” - there is one example in our wing where such a tea drinking SNCO was promoted. Their OC I have always respected for their integrity and diligence but was surprised they signed it off as approved as their OC unless without it they knew the CFAV would walk…which in itself isn’t reason to say “yes” - and why I was surprised they did so…
the CoC is the final filter but if they are “yes” men people then the CoC approval becomes just another tick box
seconded.
i will indicate though that of the handful of examples I know of, these are not former Cadets turned CFAV but late joiners to the organisation, sometimes a parent of a Cadet who accepted the suggestion to go into uniform.
part of the issue is, because promotion is “easy” (ie it isn’t really a challenge, and is achievable even for the least capable SNCO) that there is a perceived sigma at not gaining promotion that isn’t valid for a Fg off.
Because saying a Sgt for 8 years looks bad, like your not trying, or doing your bit, people tick the boxes…and when a SNCO has been in uniform 12 years and still “only” a FS it looks bad.
whereas as a Fg Off there is not the same sigma, as the “time served” is such a long way off that people accept that the Fg Off is (often) the 2IC anyway…
Ask @james_elliott to put a mechanism in volunteer portal where we can record all the extra hours we do outside parade nights (which incidentally was picked up in the review about volunteers complaining bout excessive hours)
A review would probably work better for those outside of an allocated role.
But I digress
it isn’t just the time though.
It is how active they are. As you rightly identify a WgShootingOf is “active” at home considering SMS applications and being the SPO.
but a Sgt turning up as the third first aider, or in one example i know volunteering to drive the “safety vehicle” on a greens camp (and yes they sat in the cab all weekend avoiding doing anything substantial) is seen to the “putting the hours in”
I get there is an argument that someone has to do that role, and without it the event can’t go ahead, but when FS Jones is constantly finding the easy job do they really deserve their status as FS over more competent Sgts?
One thing that I’ve seen that the SCC do for their officers is that they have to do a mini-portfolio a head of their course - think CVQO competency modules but for personal skills. Down side is that the initial admin burden means people do the role but can’t be bothered to do the paperwork to get the rank that goes with it hence why you have a large number of POs but few officers & CPOs & a incredible small number of WO
Yeah, absolutely. It needs that shift in mindset from “Well, they’ve ticked all the matrix boxes, there’s no reason for me not to promote them”, to “Okay. They’ve completed the matrix… That’s step 1… But are they actually FS/WO material?”
That change has happened in some places, but I hear of others where it hasn’t hit home yet.
And as you also highlight, we need to change the impression of promotion in the minds of all.
Once people stop seeing it as a “well done” which one receives after 4 years of doing the job of a Sgt, and see it as something which one gets by stepping up to take on a higher role, then not gaining promotion will no longer be considered as a snub.
This. For work I record all the time I work, not just when I attend the office(or the kitchen table). If I spend 6 minutes answering emails whilst on the loo then it gets recorded. If I spend half an hour on the train refining a skeleton argument that gets recorded. That’s the only way an organisation can see just how much extra time people are putting in. They can then allocate new recruits accordingly. It also means that if you’re late in or early out some days due to school run/doctors/cadets etc. they can see that you’re still going beyond what’s expected.
Would be scary to see how quickly people rack up their 144 hours though if we did this.
Personally I’ve never seen it as the former; only the latter. But that’s probably because I have been promoted in all my roles before the existence of a matrix. IT was never seen as a well done - more as taking on more responsibility and being able to ‘carry’ the rank. I probably wouldn’t tick some of the boxes on that matrix now for example… blues camp? No thank-you, I’d rather stick pins in my eyes.
So in that respect the matrix has standardised the minimum expectation, but because someone wrote it down in black and white, black and white is all some people see the decision as, which is not the case.
I have, personally, declined to recommend a FS for promotion to WO on the basis that in some circumstances they didn’t quite come up to scratch (in terms of behaviour, standards etc) to what I would expect of a WO. That just led to a conversation about development and what is required, rather than it being a slight.
Oh, you’ve got one of those too? Ours is now a FS with a made up Wing role because they get turfed out of any sqn they’re on in less than 3 months for being utterly useless.
Likewise.
Though, sadly, there are those who don’t see it the way we do.
I have literally heard the words “It’ll be a nice ‘well done’ for me…” on one occasion, and I’ve certainly heard “they’ve earned it” for people who have simply done 4 years as Sgt on a Sqn.
A slight digression but back when people had to apply for extension of service, I do think lot more were put out to pasture than are currently being appropriately managed out nowadays.
Words
I never knew anyone to be refused an extension, except on grounds of age which was as ridiculous then as it is when they do it now.
It will come to pass if Handbrake House wishes it…
All the old VR(T) types will retire…eventually 
All those who joined under VR(T) but got ‘promoted’ under CFC will bitch and moan but eventually go…
From then on no one will know any different and they just have to accept the club rules
Not before doing a stint as a Sqn Officer again and being the world’s worst Fg Off to manage I won’t 
Revenge is a dish best eaten very cold!
There won’t be an organisation as we know it left by then anyway.
Depends on the interpretation of the current rules, I know through conversations where I am that the interpretation in some areas is that if you would’ve been a Flt Lt time served as a VR(T) Officer then you can’t be put down any lower than that. (I assume that their are 33 different interpretations of that).
I think this would apply to me. Not that I particularly care; if anything I think I’d probably prefer to go back to Fg Off and entertain myself by baiting anyone who is overly concerned by rank. 
But then you’d need a much larger team at sector level and sectors would need an HQ (which to be fair is how the ACF Coys work)
I think the Cpl route would be good… I have been saying it for years, as for the issue in the mess many summer camps are tented, those that are not the ACLO could get an exemption I’m sure (they already do exchange drinks for JNCO’s).