Clearly stretching a bit here. Clearly got some prejudices you’re worried about
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However, I’m far more concerned with the setting of an arbitrary, objective restriction on what is a subjective issue - the staff drinking policy.
The new policy does well to set out more clearly the conditions under which you can be told to “sling it” with regard to intoxication. It’s possible that while the old policy implied much the same, it wasn’t explicit and perhaps then too muddy to enforce at times.
However, the 8 hour limit does nothing useful and is potentially harmful. A single can of cider at 2230 for a 0600 reveille is now automatically more serious than half a bottle of Jack between 2130 and 2200 according to the letter of the policy - which is clearly nonsense, yet if the Jack drinker “appears ok” the next day and someone decides to report the resident Wurzel then you get a situation where the (probably) safer CFAV is up on discip while the reckless one gets away with it.
If you want to set a limit, it’s the wrong one to use. It promotes “as much as you like” before that 8 hour window starts (as long as you can act ok the next day) and catches out the late duty bod who finally managed to sit down.
And if a “single can”, or whatever it may be gets you a complaint, but the CoC find some sense and apply the “it was only this, you were fine the next day and well within the other stipulations of the policy” then the rule is surplus.
It’s folly to attempt to place objective regulation on a subjective state of being (fit for duty) with so many variables. The 8 hour limit does nothing to actually tackle the morning after issue.
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I’d say you’re stretching here too 
@Turbo’s scenario is certainly a grand hypothetical hyperbole, it is an amusing thought to consider the meltdown.
But I think we should be staying in the realms of likely effects, instead of imagining any convoluted worst-case.
I don’t really see it being an issue. A 19 yr old cadet will have been a cadet for a number of years and, therefore, should be familiar with the policy. If they have chosen to start smoking, it should be with the understanding that they can’t do it when on cadet activities. Since the law changed on the age you could buy cigarettes to 18, every camp or activity I’ve been on has banned cadets under 18 smoking anyway - many have banned all cadets smoking. So I don’t really think this is a new thing.
As many have said, it’s now about the practicalities too. Smoking is banned on all MOD sites - including RFCA sites. So unless you are going to take supervised smoking parties off site - which I personally would not do - they can’t smoke.
What a shame that doesn’t apply to flying in civilian aircraft…or any RAFAC policy for that matter!
Touché
Yet more policy treating staff cadets, adults, as children. Of course smoking and drinking should be discouraged but why should staff cadets as adults not be allowed to do what they like within the remit of the law?
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Couldn’t agree more! Regardless of any, frankly, ridiculous “club rules” Staff Cadets ARE adults. I personally treat staff cadets as members of staff and cannot wait for policy to more sensible, formalising this. In my experience, they generally have just as much good ideas, input & hardwork as CI’s… talk about double-standars.
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I can understand the angle of the no drinking rules for Staff cadets, as it can (and certianly has) lead to issues with positions of trust…
But smoking doesn’t have that at all. My normal rule on a multiday activity will be cadets can smoke in their down time. Only in designated areas, and only ever on their own.
My question would be, would you apply those exact same rules to adult staff?
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Not likely. The reason I would apply it to cadets, both under and over 18, is because the younger the person, generally the more impressionable they are. I don’t want 3 cadets going to smoke together, as that will normally end up with non-smokers going too. And that’s what I want to stop. It also stops those who only smoke ‘socially’ from smoking at all.
If they go one at a time, and they’re out of sight, then they aren’t going to impression their peers. The second you allow them to smoke together, you end up with loads of people in the smoking area and that isn’t ideal… That’s my experience anyway.
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Yeah, I appreciate your point of view - I see where you’re coming from. I can’t help thinking that it’s a ‘moveable’ argument in terms of age however. A brand new 20 year old CI isn’t necessarily any less impressionable than a 19 year old cadet… and yet it could be seen that we are not properly safeguarding them either if the same rule isn’t applied to staff? Safeguarding applies to everyone, not just cadets!
I hear what you’re saying and, before I say anymore, this is a minefield I think. It’s one of those situations where things might have been better if the rules weren’t as definitive, to allow a common sense ‘boots on the ground’ approach. Alas, that’s not the case!
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Totally agree. But we have to draw a line somewhere. I draw that line at those who are cadets, and I’m in a position of trust over, vs those who are my colleagues. That line would change on a staff only course that had staff cadets on it I guess. (also, I’m on the team of cadets leave at 18 and become CFAV, it would help with a lot of these kind of issues! But that’s for another thread!)
It sure is! And that minefield I think changes massive depending on what kind of area your squadron is in too!
I’ve always treated it like that. From a H&S point of view, it’s safer I know where they’re smoking, rather than them sneaking off. And I’ve yet to be challenged for that approach. Maybe that will change given the new very explicit policy. 
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Boom… but keeping it on topic…
I’d tend to agree, policy arguments aside and working in the real world, yes. Keep a track of it and manage it properly.
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We are still in the ridiculous position for Staff Cadets with drinking and we have now added smoking to the equation.
I could and have in the past run AT events where the QUALIFIED Staff Cadet is the only reason it can run, but once training for the day is over they are suddenly expected to be treated like Children again while the staff have a well earned pint.
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Easy way to solve that one is ban anyone from drinking, even off duty in the evening. (/s) That’s what our wing has done. (depending on who you are anyway…)
If the organisation decided to treat me like that much of a child I would leave.
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When something like this comes out we know we can rest easy that everything else in the organisation is fine and dandy.
Since the mid 00s the policy on smoking in buildings has been crystal and every sqn and place I I have worked or been to has managed it in pretty much the same way with no problems. This is completely pointless and irrelevant and whoever suggested it’s requirement, must be needing something for their annual appraisal or make it look like they are doing something. I just wonder which planet they’ve been living on as they have missed what has been going on here.
When the rules on smoking in public buildings and workplaces came to pass, smokers resisted and got antsy but got into it taking “smoke breaks” and non-smokers like me, took smoke breaks as well.
When we do activities we again have managed this without external interference.
Why can’t HQAC get on with sorting out the big things, rather than BS like this, it’s what they get PAID to do.
I wonder how many cadets smoke, as opposed to vape.
From the boarding school perspective, things have shifted dramatically and it is exceptionally rare for us to catch a pupil smoking, but vaping is very common and much harder to detect. Of course, the latter doesn’t have the same fire risk.
The problem is that many pupils become addicted at home (with ‘relaxed’ parenting…) and it’s not realistically possible to prevent them vaping at school, though we can suppress it to a degree.
A major shift since my own days at boarding school, where the sixth form common room was a designated smoking space and, as I didn’t smoke, I kept out…
PS also very different from our alcohol policy, which includes ‘two beers or glasses of wine per day for sixth form at supervised events with staff’ and a sixth form bar, the latter now including food, of course.