Except we don’t have those. They are private purchase.
I could accept - even welcome - retiring the L144 or limiting its deployment if we were given air rifles instead and the servicing was covered centrally.
I’ve missed something, I think; what has indicated a move towards only air rifle?
This is a big rumour.
No indication of this from my conversations with the shooting command chain.
1 Like
Agreed. This isn’t a thing at all and I say that having spoken to all the ‘right’ people about it (not wishing to name drop or cite others without their permission).
Simply the fact that you can now get all the badges on the air rifle. It could be argued that the other weapons systems have become redundant.
Why would someone with a gold shooting badge on AR want to ‘start again’ on L144, L98, or L81. Low take up on these courses could be used as another excuse to bin them off.
Looking at it simply…
We have reverted to Pre-2017 PTS…
Sqn, Wing, Region, Corps…
3 Likes
Couldn’t you get the badges on .22 or L98 before the changes? Back in 2002 I got one on the L98 (or whatever it was then and then got the crossed rifles on the. 22
1 Like
Could they all be achieved with an air rifle in your sqn hut? Back when I was a cadet, you could only get the crossed rifles (RAF Marksman) by going to an RAF station and firing the L98 (A1 at the time).
You could do this pre-pts with the old badges.
Not sure what you mean “start again”
They’d keep the highest badge earned. They would start from CLF1 on a new weapon system but surely that’s sensible to build confidence, skill and experience with it. You could argue in theory if they already have gold shot on the AR they’d progress through the lessons quickly. But also they bring in different challenges, bigger distances, firing positions or types of shooting.
And no new badges, as they already have gold for using an air rifle (arguably a toy).
Which is how it used to be pre-pts
But then they might have only got blue shot on the air rifle then get bronze or silver with the L98.
I’m some ways, it’s harder to get a badge on air rifle, especially if it’s breech loaded, as you have to change firing position between every shot.
2 Likes
Air rifle was really a niche weapon system when PTS came in, it proliferated far more widely post PTS, which strangely enough coincided with the demise of the No8 and the real disappearance of small bore from most Cadets.
I’ve said from day 1 that the badging for shooting under PTS needed changing, but I don’t think less badges is the answer.
What needed to happen is that the chart needed rotating 90 degrees, so that the shape of the badge indicated the weapon system and the colour indicated the quality of shot. So a trained shot would always be blue, but if it’s cross rifles it’s L81 or if it’s just a plain rifle it’s air rifle. (In the process get rid of the pony rifle with a star and introduce an L98 shaped badge for the L98).
3 Likes
Similar to back when it was Sqn, Wing, Region, Corps. I was very proud of achieving Corps marksman on the No 8. as most people got it on the L98. The snap and rapids had the same timings, except the L98 was mag fed, and the No 8 you had to reload each time, so it was much tighter to get the rounds downrange in time!
2 Likes
We wouldn’t have changed it at all if it wasn’t for the drive to reduce costs, the 16 badge system hasn’t really been in for long. The name thing is incidental and as requested by management.
I don’t disagree. However when we are trying to reduce costs reducing the number of badges helps.
My proudest shooting moment was requalifying for my Corps on a No.8 on Easter camp with just standard iron sights. Considering I’d done it first time on one of our squadron rifles, zeroed to me alone, using Parker Hale target sights and a single point sling, doing it again on an armoury weapon was like hard mode.
5 Likes
I’d love to know if HQ have actually done any maths on this, are we actually doing to be giving out less badges or more badges of a smaller number.
I would hope they are already ordering badges in large enough numbers that their isn’t really any economy of scale to be made.
1 Like
You must be new here 
Can we revert further please…
Back to ATC and RAF Marksman badges.
Ta
2 Likes