[quote=“Perry Mason” post=13070][quote=“themajor” post=13055]And the change for CIs to wear DPM/MTP for SAAI Courses, Training Periods and Ranges now.
PPE :D[/quote]
Para 0221 …… Civilian Instructors/Padres are not to wear CS95/MTP or any other DPM clothing.
And
Para 0223 …… Civilian Instructors attending Skill at Arms Instructor courses may wear CS95/MTP during training periods and ranges only. It is not to be worn outside the training environment e.g. transit to and from messes and accommodation on Military units.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Themajor… bleating on about this doesnt do your rep any good, even if im the only one here who knows you.[/quote]
Maybe I should stop exercising my shooting qualifications then, whilst advised by CTT & WShoO that correct PPE is to be worn. Given that technically I can’t wear the PPE :!:
And a SAAI Course has no period on a Range, I believe it is poorly worded.
However… if you can explain to me how combats are PPE in range/weapon training environments (and that suitable civilian clothes are not) then I’ll happily concede the point and petition HQAC myself.
Thats what people advancing the argument that its PPE assume but there is nothing in Ch1 Section 1 (The Safe System of Training SST) which refers at all to uniform/dress.
The only reference is at para 0244 (ch2 - Planning, section 2) -
[quote]Dress
The dress for cadet training with Cadet WS, ammunition or pyrotechnics is stated in the appropriate cadet manuals, however when firing using the L98A2 Cadet GP Rifle, ideally cadets and CFAV should have webbing, enabling them to carry out the correct weapon handling drills.[/quote]
There is, its in the badge section! I think there is a general misuse of the term MTP throughout the revisions. It should refer to CS95 and/or PCS. PCS only comes in MTP, CS95 potentially in both.
When I first read through the sections on field clothing I read it as though no additional badges were to be worn with PCS![/quote]Indeed, someone at HQAC clearly needs it explaining to them!
Yes, let’s please stop this endless attempt to classify CS95/PCS as PPE.
It’s not.
PPE is designed to protect from some specific H&S risk; not to ‘protect’ you from getting your civies dirty.
If any evidence were needed (beyond simply logical thought) one need look no further than JSP886, Vol 6, Pt 5 “Clothing”, Ch 12 “Personal Protective Equipment”.
[quote]Description of PPE. PPE is all clothing and equipment designed to be worn or held by a person at work to protect the user against one of more risk(s), other than:
a. Ordinary working clothes and uniforms not specifically designed to protect the health & safety of the wearer."
…[/quote]
Pretty simple I’d have thought. The only PPE we require for skill at arms is hearing protection when shooting.
The Safe System of Training is:
Safe Persons, Safe Equipment, Safe Practice, Safe Place.
Note that it doesn’t include “Camouflage Uniform”.
page 68
"Swords may be carried by officers (only when all cadets are armed with weapons) and they must wear white gloves only with there uniform."
i confess i have only seen swords used on one formal occasion in the ACO but it would seem given the hoops to jump through to get Cadets “arms drill” competant it will be a rare occasion to see swords used
(not that i am bothered myself, just pointing it out)
page 119 indicates that the pre-ATF Sgt rank slide shows a white tab at the bottom of the slide, nice to have that confirmed given the handful of full white tab Sgts i have seen confused as “Officer Cadets”
There is, its in the badge section! I think there is a general misuse of the term MTP throughout the revisions. It should refer to CS95 and/or PCS. PCS only comes in MTP, CS95 potentially in both.
When I first read through the sections on field clothing I read it as though no additional badges were to be worn with PCS![/quote]Indeed, someone at HQAC clearly needs it explaining to them!
For example - is the ATC/RAF FI worn in MTP CS95?[/quote]
Urm… dress regs for CS95 are dress regs for CS95, regardless of colour…
That said, wearing MTP CS95 is a good way to make some people get all upset with you…
[quote=“MattB” post=13171]That would seem perfectly logical - and probably correct - but I bet that many different people will read it in many different ways!
I’ve heard a number of people who think that you’re not allowed to wear CS95 MTP at all…[/quote]
Wearing CS95 in MTP would probably cause a few people to have a dress reg meltdown. Especially considering you can roll the sleeves up in that, but seemingly can’t in PCS MTP. (Which really GMG, as things like Nijmegen in long sleeves will be interminable, yet another reason I’m not switching the Nijmegen team over for next year.)
Sleeve rolled up in PCS may not have been written into our dress regs but if it’s good enough for the RAF then it should be good enough for us.
It’s no surprise that our regs are out of sync with the RAF. They’re an epic improvement on what we had before but still a bit of an odd mix and match.
[quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=13180]Sleeve rolled up in PCS may not have been written into our dress regs but if it’s good enough for the RAF then it should be good enough for us.
It’s no surprise that our regs are out of sync with the RAF. They’re an epic improvement on what we had before but still a bit of an odd mix and match.[/quote]
I don’t quite understand why it wasn’t included. Seems odd that we can untuck before we roll up.
genuine question, and i’m not getting at anyone in asking it.
does anyone care? is there really any OC/SNCO who is such a complete throbber that they would refuse the cadets permission to roll their sleeves up in a working/warm environment because the ACP doesn’t mention rolling sleeves up?
[quote=“Baldrick” post=13182][quote=“wdimagineer2b” post=13180]Sleeve rolled up in PCS may not have been written into our dress regs but if it’s good enough for the RAF then it should be good enough for us.
It’s no surprise that our regs are out of sync with the RAF. They’re an epic improvement on what we had before but still a bit of an odd mix and match.[/quote]
I don’t quite understand why it wasn’t included. Seems odd that we can untuck before we roll up.[/quote]
As it’s permitted for the RAF it’s most probably an oversight.
[quote=“angus” post=13190]genuine question, and i’m not getting at anyone in asking it.
does anyone care? is there really any OC/SNCO who is such a complete throbber that they would refuse the cadets permission to roll their sleeves up in a working/warm environment because the ACP doesn’t mention rolling sleeves up?[/quote]
[quote=“Perry Mason” post=13081]Thats what people advancing the argument that its PPE assume but there is nothing in Ch1 Section 1 (The Safe System of Training SST) which refers at all to uniform/dress.
The only reference is at para 0244 (ch2 - Planning, section 2) -
[quote]Dress
The dress for cadet training with Cadet WS, ammunition or pyrotechnics is stated in the appropriate cadet manuals, however when firing using the L98A2 Cadet GP Rifle, ideally cadets and CFAV should have webbing, enabling them to carry out the correct weapon handling drills.[/quote]
My underline.[/quote]
Which, of course, isn’t technically true. Pam 5-C only specifies that “uniform of the day” is to be worn.