New Cadet Rankslides

Everyone Uniform and Drill
164

i agree with the opening bit - but struggle with the second.
what value does this change offer?
who is asking for it?
and once again, how do the Cadets benefit?

this is another decision made in the ivory towers “just because” (see further comments below) that has impact on everyone, but benefit for no one.

i think the missing element for people to “agree” is highlighted below:

bang on the money. we (CFAVs/Cadets) can still disagree with it, but at least then it is an informed decision. removing the “just because” approach, and explaining “the why” gets everyone on board.

there is no such thing as “too much communication” - but it is very easy to leave elements out which in turn leaves the reader asking more questions and with a feeling of being left in the dark.

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165

Speculation this removes all defence from regular service personnel that they were not aware the 17 Year Old mature Cadet Sgt was not a Direct Entry SNCO because they are now clearly and obviously (like all VAR decisions) a Cadet and therefore any form of social interaction is a no.

If this is the case, it protects our people, and I’m therefore fully behind it.

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166

That’s a pretty good observation, and undermines my previous thoughts.

Caveat that there’s speculation there, but with my previous comment being that it’s not necessarily obvious what the colours etc mean, the one thing it is very clearly not to any service person is “parent service”.

It is also very reminiscent of tabs worn by Ph1 recruits, which would have the same duty of care / safeguarding implication for post training pers.

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167

If they haven’t invested so much into the PTS badge system I would have said, it’s a good idea as it identifies the individual as being U18/O18 and not in the RAF. We could have then saved money by introducing rank slides with your squadron number being on the rank slide. Then scrap all brassards and badges apart from “proper” Wings e.g. Gliding/ACPS and the MOI lanyard. The virtual brassard/cadet portal still shows the quals and courses.

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168

This is an interesting observation/suggestion as to why they may have done this.

But, if this is a reason, I disagree with it. Regulars should know better. If this is a problem, the solution should be better education to regulars in how not to be a nonce, rather than changing something on our side.

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169

Consider the majority of cadet interaction with random regulars occurs when they are in civvies at the naffi/spar/bowling alley I think the rationale here is false.

No one is meant to get up to “shenanigans” while on duty so the rank tabs are bit of a sweetie wrapper so show something is being action when in practice it makes no difference.

2 Likes
170

personally i question how frequently the “risk” is presenting itself versus.

perhaps I am approaching this too much from an RA point of view, but if:
the given risk is, Service personnel not recongising Cadets are Cadets and thus verboten to engage with, then the control measure is “rank slide identifies Cadet as a Cadet”

it seems a little…odd.
There are more safeguarding measures in place and have been for decades which work.
going back to the “frequency” of the risk - is this only an issue for those Cadets going on Camp?
This year our Squadron have only 3x places on Camp, and all of them RIAT - very limited chance for engagement with service personnel out of the public eye (ie off the show ground).

Cadets rarely engage with service personnel outside of an “annual camp” environment, save for a “station visit” which is typically a day visit. Shooting, AEF, and other events which give reason for the RAFAC to be “on station” are only day trips, with perhaps those lucky few who are able to utilise service accommodation for weekend training courses.
but there are easier and more effective control measures to put in place.
“no go zones” for service personnel, signs on the doors to accommodation, CFAV supervision of Cadets

critically - it only helps the regular service personnel that they are chatting up a 17 year old when that 17 year old is in uniform…
it is just as easy, it not more so, to confuse a 17 year old cadet in Civis visiting the Station NAAFI/Spar shop as regular personnel than immediately consider them a Cadet.

while i am not suggesting control measures shouldn’t be applied, approach from a Risk Assessment perspective the end risk score should be ALARP - I am not sure, or convinced these new rank slides address the risk, or reduce it significantly (given the frequency the risk is present, in uniform, to suggest the effort for all is worth it - to use the phrase my boss uses alot
“the juice isn’t worth the squeeze”

All Cadet rank slides now have to change, everyone’s stores need to restock. suppliers need to change designs, documents need updating, training needs delivering (briefings) to explain the change all for a risk which I have never felt was “out of control” in the organisation. in my ~20 years while I have heard of a “near miss” never anything more than that - and only ever because the Cadets were in civilian dress and easy mistaken for being 2-3 years older than they were.

again I am not dismissing putting suitable control measures in place, but question the proportionality of this one for the suggested reason given my feelings above

4 Likes
171

Because of the negativity on all of this, ive decided i like them.

172

The problem is that this organisation and especially the empty uniform who ran it last doesn’t understand that if something is ALARP that doesn’t mean you have eliminated all risk. Hence the succession of pauses and stops and bans.

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173

but that statement is true.
there is still risk present - it is up to those signing it off to determine if that risk is acceptable. if not after applying all the available control measures we don’t do the activity there is “no risk” if there is no activity.

my point being in my statement above, while there is a “risk” prior to the rank slides, i am not sure how much lower that gets with the rank slides
it only helps when the Cadets are in uniform - and typically if they are in uniform they are on duty, if a Cadet is “on duty” then so is a CFAV and thus supervising and can, quite easily step in and shoo away unwanted/unwarranted attention
Even in when in civis during down time it is unlikely a CFAV will not be close by/within ear shot so question the benefit

174

Did I ever tell you how much I hate MTP NCO rank slides? Absolutely ghastly abominations.

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175

Correct - & even if a CFAV isn’t in super-close proximity (e.g. selling poppies), cadets are never on their own & a CFAV will be “patrolling” or reachable very quickly.

176

Please don’t point out that the greatest risk is when cadets are out of uniform.

We’ll end up having to issue armbands or use reigns or something else ridiculous and expensive.

Or just not go outside. That’s an option that’s been used before. Tbh the way the org is going with synthetic training, we’ll probably end up giving cadets a VR NAAFI like some horrible knock off VRChat.

177

It be fine this can be solved by every RAF regular reserve & civil servant completing a yearly e-learning package about “interacting with cadets”

They will just avoid us completely then .

178

I stumbled across this - & this is probably good as thread as any

Uploading: IMG_2291.jpeg…

179

Funny at the end of the petition you have

‘So that the cadets have their uniforms as THEY want them (sic).’

If the Cadets ever got to decide on the uniform, I would have No1s for all back when I was a Cdt :joy:

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180

Can you imagine Parliament having to debate this?

181

Probably do less damage to the country than anything else they might be doing.

182

I can imagine a wider debate over funding which this is then cited.

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183

you won’t fit some of the CCF school names on the rank slides