Trolling t’interweb and discovered this site, so I figured I’d join and see if you guys could help me out.
I have recently taken over Adj duties for my Sqn and am trying to get my head around a number of issues before our AFI.
First one being the amount of ‘archived’ paperwork I seem to have inherited.
Does anyone know how long I have to keep all this paperwork, especially TG Form 21s? I seem to have an Amazonian rain forest in a filing cabinet!!
Also, if details are actually written down somewhere, anyone know where? (I’ve checked ACTO4 and that only details 3521A & 3822A, which I’ll begin sorting tonight :unsure: )
Most recently I’ve heard that TG forms (and their predecessors) are retained for 7 years past the date of the activity but I have also heard a variety of alternatives. We try to dump them onto wing so that it becomes their problem.
I think F3822As need to be retained for 5 years after a cadet leaves, or until their 23rd birthday, whichever is later.
It would be convenient if all of this was detailed in some form of data handling ACP…
We are told to send our consent forms to Wing immediately following an event for them to archive. Ideal solution!
I keep meaning to put together a sheet detailing the requirements for completion, retention, and archival for various paperwork. The details are currently scattered around the various JSPs, APs, and ACPs. Just one of the plans on a long list of more important stuff to do.
It might be useful in this day and age if we took a leaf from the RAF book and appointed a couple of information managers. There’s supposedly someone in that role at HQAC but I never received a reply to my question a year ago regarding file plans. You’d think that as IMgr they’d be all over that.
In our wing, we are supposed to package them all up and they go to WHQ for storage for 7 years before they are securely destroyed…
Reference general paperwork, we are advised that we shouldn’t bother keeping anything for over 12 months if it relates to events etc etc - stuff should be shredded if it contains sensitive/personal information.
Generally, we don’t keep a great deal of paperwork these days to be honest as everything is on the sharepoint. We certainly don’t print copies of emails or anything weird like that or keep a lot of that stuff locally anymore as it is just busy work and not a good use of our time.
I concur with the 7 years, but I can’t quote a reference for it TBH.
Also agreed - we handle very little paper now except for the elements wdimagineer2b says above. Everything else is electronic and printed temporarily then shredded if needs be.
I found a reference in ACTO4 about 3822A (kept until cadet reaches 25 would you believe!! Although only 3 months on sqn before sending it off to WHQ for “Secure Storage”)
It also states 3521A should be kept for 5 years after the cadet leaves, so again potentially until age 25.
My predecessor was of the 7 years opinion for TG forms, whereas the WO-i-C from a neighbouring sqn is of the opinion they don’t need to be kept at all after the event!!
I think I might go with wdimagineer2b and send them all off to WHQ
MattB, I have no problem generating them, especially now that staff aren’t allowed to ‘keep’ cadet contact details anywhere, it’s good to have parental contact information ‘on-the-day’ as it were. I am of the opinion that once the cadet has returned safely from the event, the TG is a waste of paper. Ho-hum.
is this not what the NOK details are for in the 3822? hence no Cadet attends an event without a 3822??
and even if that fails we have SMS, ok not so easy to access remotely but someone can be contacted via phone to log in and pass on the details.
as mentioned by MattB there is nothing to indicate what they are required for, other than all AT events, sports and any event that is over night.
as such that is all we generate for now, its far too much effort for a paperwork exercise
[quote=“Moosemaster” post=15068]My wing want them for any off-site event, even bag-packing and poppy collecting!
Hence the reams of paper I have stored on squadron.
Do you have a reference for where it lists when they are required. I might try to argue the point at my upcoming AFI!
As for the 3822, how many cadets do you know who bother to keep that part of their 3822 up-to-date?[/quote]
As I’ve said, I’m 99% sure that there is no reference that states everything for which they are required.
Logic would suggest annual camps, sports and AT require one - as the TG21’s predecessor (CC1, etc) was specifically designed IIRC to replace the three separate forms that existed for those activities up to that point.
I’ve always gone with anything that requires more-than-normal levels of physical exertion (AT, FT, sports, etc) and/or anything that requires an overnight stay.
[quote=ACTO004]11. Leaving. When a cadet leaves the Corps his Sqn Cdr is to:
a. Retain the cadet’s Forms 3521A for 5 years. 3822A should be kept until the cadet in question reaches 25 years old as it contains medical information. 3822A should be kept on sqn for approximately 3-months, then, sent securely to Wg for storage.
b. Hand the updated Form 3822 to the cadet for their retention.
c. Destroy all other forms relating to the cadet.
[/quote]
Consent forms would be other forms. Age 13 to 20 = 7 years so maybe that’s where that came from.
Doesn’t really clarify how long to keep them for at least you can/have to bin the ones for cadets that have left.
Sadly the forms are currently stored chronologically, rather than by cadet.
I was hoping to simply shred the entire folder (date permitting) rather than trawl through for individual cadets.
Oh, well, nobody said it would be easy!! :crying:[/quote]
Just parcel up the whole thing and post it all to High Wycombe or somewhere. Either you’ll never hear about it again or someone will suddenly contact you and tell you exactly what you need to do.
In all honesty, my pragmatic approach, if I were in your situation, would be to shred the lot, find out the correct answer through the CoC and then start doing it properly from then on rather than expending a huge amount of time to rectify the current situation.
I’d tend to parcel them up in envelopes with the date & event labelled on the front (and possibly an SMS refernce) and keep hold of them for as long as you are asked to when you get a definitive answer.
[quote]11. Leaving. When a cadet leaves the Corps his Sqn Cdr is to:
a. Retain the cadet’s Forms 3521A for 5 years. 3822A should be kept until the cadet in question reaches 25 years old as it contains medical information. 3822A should be kept on sqn for approximately 3-months, then, sent securely to Wg for storage.
[/quote]
Why on earth, in this electronic age, can’t a scanned copy of relevant documents be kept (same for consent forms)? So, as it stands, if a cadet leaves at age 14, his 3822A has to be stored by Wg until the cadet is 25 = 11 years??!! Madness. Same for 5 yrs with the 3521A.
What is the medical information relevance for protracted storage of the 3822A? Is someone expecting the ACO to be sued as little Johnny caught a cold on an Easter Camp 10 years before??
Scan everything relevant, back-up the copies & shred the paperwork!
Who is the sponsor for ACTO 04? They really need to bring this in line with the 21st Century.
