Can anyone help clear up the ruling for me?
AP isn’t that clear
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Tucked in, sleeves rolled down.
Note 3 regarding L/W jacket for MTP:
“3. Worn tucked into trousers. The local commander also may
authorise the shirt to be worn outside the waistband, during
extremely hot weather conditions when off base (in the field) only”
Note 3 regarding L/W jacket for DPM:
3. Worn tucked into trousers. Sleeves may be rolled above the
elbows unless otherwise directed by local command, during hot
weather conditions when off base (in the field). The local
commander also may authorise the shirt to be worn outside the
waistband, during extremely hot weather conditions when off base
(in the field).
as for MTP it doesnt say you can roll the sleeves up i assume you cant, and it makes it clear to tuck it in.
Shirts in is pretty clear. It’s the sleeves that are the issue!
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Also loo at the sample photos, DPM there is sleeves up and down whereas MTP is only sleeves down
Found this, but don’t know if it’s been posted before and I can’t exactly recall where it came from either. Please remember, it’s RAF Policy, not ACO, but the rules should be the same:
Royal Air Force Combat Uniform Dress Policy
After consideration of the Defence policy on the wearing of the new Personal Clothing System Combat Uniform (PCS CU), the RAF has decided to make a number of adjustments which are consistent with the DIB issued in Feb 2011 on the introduction of the Personal Clothing System and the intent in Joint DIN 2008DIN01-200 ‘The Wearing of Uniform in Public - Standards of Dress and Behaviour’.
This policy change is intended to help maintain the RAF’s profile in the public eye when wearing combat uniform by allowing the use of standard RAF blue rank slides and braid, stable belts and the introduction of an RAF specific badge. These changes will also come into effect for the deployed phase of Op OLYMPIC for RAF personnel in the Venue Security Force who may be wearing PCS CU to undertake such tasks as vehicle searches.
The most significant change is that when Royal Air Force personnel are required to wear the new uniform at their normal place of work ‘on base’, the PCS CU lightweight jacket is to be worn ‘tucked in’ to trousers. In addition, standard blue RAF rank slides/braids are to be worn and personnel are permitted to wear approved pattern RAF stable belts. In due course an RAF badge will be introduced, to be worn in place of the Tactical Recognition Flash.
When personnel are engaged on tasks that entail high levels of physical activity, particularly at higher temperatures, local commanders will retain the authority to allow the jacket to be temporarily un-tucked; it is also permissible, as in the extant regulations for CS95, to remove the jacket completely and complete the tasks in just the t-shirt. Once the task is completed, or an individual leaves the task to undertake less strenuous duties about his Unit, then the Jacket should be replaced and tucked in to the trousers.
Due to the limitations of the current sleeve design, the sleeves of the jacket are normally to be worn down. However, where the activity or temperature dictate, sleeves can be rolled up at the discretion of the individual.
The new combat uniform was designed specifically to support the combat task. Thus, when personnel are engaged in combat operations, operational training or on exercises where combat uniform is being worn as part of a specific requirement of the task, and where high activity levels can be expected to be encountered at short notice, the jacket is to be worn outside of the trousers. In these situations, low contrast rank slides, combat webbing belts and tactical recognition flashes may also be worn at the discretion of the local Commander.
The full details of these changes can be found at AP1358 Dress Regulations for the Royal Air Force, Chapter 2.
This revised policy should be read in the context of the IBN issued in Sep 08, which directed a significant reversion to the wearing of No 2 blue uniform and a greater wearing of uniform in public in support of a stronger public profile for the RAF. While RAF Commanders retain the authority to allow or direct the wearing of combat uniform for its designated purpose of combat operations, operational training and exercises, routine work activities ‘on base’ will rarely qualify against these criteria. Furthermore, combat uniform is not the alternative dress for heavy or dirty work, for which personnel should use standard-issue coveralls. Any standing routine wearing of combat uniform will require the authorization of the respective RAF 2-star/AOC.
For all RAF personnel serving with or in Joint, RN and Army organizations, single-Service dress regulations take precedence unless there are other operational imperatives. In these situations RAF personnel are expected to wear No 2 HD unless a new standing authority to routinely wear combat uniform routinely is given by the most appropriate RAF 2-star officer - this decision cannot be made by officers from other Services. Furthermore, RAF personnel should not wear accoutrements affiliating them to non-RAF organizations, such as stable belts, regimental berets and badges; only RAF variants are permitted.
The AP is less than clear about many things.
It needs a complete rewrite by someone with the time to do it in full and with a good eye for proof reading, an understanding of defence writing, and a command of English.
In the case of sleeves, as I always say: “What do the RAF do?”
[quote=“2012DIN01-159”]
ROYAL AIR FORCE COMBAT UNIFORM DRESS POLICY
…
5. Due to the limitations of the current sleeve design, the sleeves of the jacket are normally to be worn down. However, where the activity or temperature dictate, sleeves can be rolled up at the discretion of the individual.[/quote]
Why shouldn’t we be doing the same?
I usually wear my MTP with sleeves rolled UP. None of the hierarchy at RAF Marham seem to have a problem with this. I even walked past the SWO the other day, and he never said a word!!
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It doesn’t say you can… And it doesn’t say you can’t…
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[quote=“ears” post=18473]It doesn’t say you can… And it doesn’t say you can’t…
[/quote]
Ah, the Pink Tutu argument…
I prefer just being practical, it’s clearly ridiculous that if I have 20 cadets, 10 in DPM, 10 in MTP, and it’s roasting that only half are allowed to roll up their sleeves.
If the parent service (and most of the others) are rolling up, then so should we.
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I don’t know about you, but the velcro in the lower arm of the MTP shirt makes the folds too bulky for me to find comfortable when the sleeves are rolled up.
Remove the velcro and neatly sew the lower arm pockets closed. Job jobbed.
Remove the velcro and neatly sew the lower arm pockets closed. Job jobbed.[/quote]
It’s already on the “to do” list
First mod I carried out…
Admitting to destruction and vandalism of Her Majesty’s Property?
:silly:
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No. Her Majesty had written it off.
Admitting to destruction and vandalism of Her Majesty’s Property?
:silly:[/quote]
How can it be destruction of HM property when the MOD has been paid for it via retail sale?