The main limiter with the performance of breathable membranes is that they need dry air on the outside to function. If there is standing water on the outside of a Goretex jacket then it will still be waterproof, but it won’t be breathable - it’s why Goretex jackets need a DWR coating.
If you put a Goretex jacket underneath a sodden windproof then it’ll keep the rain out and the sweat in - it works much better if you put it on the outside (and it’s why it has pockets too).
Putting it underneath a sodden jacket will probably be a bit drier than any alternative that still involves wearing the sodden jacket though.
I’ve got to back @angus here - the lightweight waterproof jackets are worn under a windproof smock. They’re issued for regulars to be operational and withstand the worst conditions placed for whatever they do. Not designed for cadets! The small number of pockets are purely meant to compliment the main smock’s storage (on the outside).
To the sweat issue: whilst they are designed to be as breathable as possible, I will agree that it would get sweaty in there. Though I hardly think they would have cause to complain if it’s that wet outside!
And they would rip in no time if these wear subjected to the wear of running with webbing and slings all day…
The fact that it has a pocket flap to access garments beneath is rather evidence that it’s also designed to be worn above other clothing! Depends on the conditions and activity at hand.
Happy to settle with that! Though begs the question does the supervising member of staff on the activity have to make the call on inside or outside waterproof a bit like sleeves up and down
Old DPM ones - liner - no proper pockets
Current lightweight MTP - seems to be designed for under or over as required
Heavyweight MTP Goretex - outer (but rare)
Goretex lined smock - seems good for known wet/cold days but how heavy is it compared to windproof?
Does anyone own it at all and have experience to share by? Is there any scenario where anyone would recommend this to a cadet over a lightweight waterproof jacket under the standard windproof smock in wet weather?
Also:
Is the black lining removable from the smock to allow for drying?
Do these have 2 versions like the other MTP issues or just the one
I see it working probably best for shooting, but not much in fieldcraft?
Re: Trousers @WestlandScout
I’m guessing you mean the waterproof trousers? Would make sense to spin off waterproof articles to another thread for better compartmentalisation and searching for new users. Still have to go through differences between MTP PCS temperate/windproof trousers…
I have the warm weather PCS trousers in at least 2 different patterns, with and without the button and tab waist adjustments. I’ve yet to find a Temperate pair in my size!
I wear mine as an outer layer in summer, without a smock, when it is raining. In winter I use the older pattern goretex. The problem with wearing a goretex under the smock, apart from breathability, is putting it on and taking it off. If it suddenly starts raining you have to take your smock off, put on the goretex and then the smock. Then you have to repeat the process in reverse to take it off, which leads to cadets not bothering and keeping it on. Of course they tend to do that anyway.
Early DMP MVP - Wear it over the top. Includes, pockets, hood, and rank strap.
Logical - Keeps you dry.
Next DPM MVP - Wear it underneath. Includes hood and nothing else.
Also logical in another way - By the time you get your kit off and dig out your waterproof your smock might already be soaked. So get something dry next to you instead and get that wet smock on over the top. Also means that you’ve still got easy access to anything in your smock pockets.
Then they realised that few people were actually doing that and so it had just become an inconvenient outer garment - so redesigned again.
The MTP kit (in both heavy and light) is designed to permit wearing over the top. They have pockets/access and rank strap.
The idea of longevity seems to have long since fallen away.
Sure, worn over the top it will wear out more rapidly; but that’s next year’s budget…
It’s far more likely that the cheap zippers will fail before the fabric - hence the huge number of basically serviceable, but for the broken zips, jackets I see in the gash bins at stores.
I see the black lining encompasses the entire neck area and also within the hood. If you see your colleague around in MTP, is the black visible when you have the smock hood rolled up (i.e. will it look slightly out-of-place for barrack use?) I know it’s issue and all, but whether it pricks up attention
The lining in the hood is visible. There is nothing in the regs saying they can’t be worn and it looks like a good bit of kit. Might be a bit warm for barrack use though?
a bit like sleeves up and down