Hi all,
Two questions from me:
What are the “circumstances” that dictate the need for a 4x4 ford ranger style vehicle? Apparently there are a specific set of criteria your exercise must meet?
Do we still have access to the Greenfleet / Scheme B booking from parent stations? And if so, how?
TIA
I can answer 1 - training area standing orders. Some training areas have roads/tracks where minibuses are not allowed to go, and you need to use a 4x4 (even if you aren’t allowed to switch it to 4x4 mode) to drive on them. If you need to take a vehicle on one of these roads for some reason, you will need a 4x4. It’s all to do with location, rather than any specific thing about your exercise.
Note - in my 15 years in the ACF, even we’ve only ever needed them for 1 exercise, and that was on SPTA.
From an MT perspective it’s a white fleet 4X4 and you need specific fam training. You’re also not going to be offroad qualified.
As for specific criteria it sounds like a local rule, there is no guidance from a national level. The only thing I could think of is movement of pyro as you need a split cab but a 50/50 would be the same and cheaper.
A lot of people like to have them for their exercises but they are expensive and in most cases a minibus or van does just as good a job.
You can’t book greenfleet from a station I’m aware of but then I deal mostly with RAF stations, Army may be different. Give the station MT a call and see what is available, expect to have to do lots of jumping through hoops though.
Fiery, moving, shrinking hoops at that.
And just because you have car on your civvie licence, it doesn’t automatically give you 4x4, as @Bob1 said you’ll need specific training.
A number of MOD staff have been caught out by being allocated a 4x4 hire car, only to find out its wasn’t on their FMT600 licence!!
Just seen a response for an exercise in one of the Regions soon and the words used were ‘not authorised’ when a 4x4 was asked for.
They are considerably more expensive so I would guess unless range orders gives a specific type of vehicle for some reason you won’t be getting one.
You say this, but I know of two seperate times MT had been ordered, just for an escort vehicle, and a brand new defender has turned up, which couldn’t be driven as it’s in the 4x4 category 
On that point, what is the criteria for “4x4” that needs the extra fam/ sign off? Hilix and defender type things obviously meet this criteria. But what if a 4 wheel dive variant of any ‘normal’ car turned up?
No idea, one for MT controller to answer.
I did my 4x4 FAM when Windermere had an MT 4x4 for a while. It was literally no different to driving a car; it was just a scratty old Hilux instead. Waste of time and money and just job creation.
very much this.
As MT class it as a different type of vehicle it “needs” a Fam drive. even though a Hilux is no different to driving an Astra.
i did hear that there are two styles of “4x4” fam.
one was to drive a 4x4 for on the road ie escort reasons (ie with a bulk head separating driver and escort from the ammo) or in @talon 's example where it will be used on a training estate where it is required (as minibus is banned) but won’t actually be driven “off road” and a 4x4 “off road” - the difference being hopefully obvious. on the basis an escort vehicle would be travelling to a range and only using prepared “roads” and tracks designed for vehicles this would not be classed as off road, but as soon as anything more “interested” was driven on this would require the “off road” module to be “legal”.
When a vehicle like the Ford Ranger is driven in 2WD only, it just needs a bog standard fam. That is what we did. Basically told us to not use the 4WD modes. I assume that use of the 4WD modes required training in off road driving? No idea as they didn’t offer it! Amusingly I had driven down there in my own Land Rover…
Yep, that’s the irony. You can drive a civvie Landie (or other comparable 4WD vehicles) on your civvie licence without any issues, but the equivalent has to be “special” for MT…
Having owned a couple of 4x4 vehicles in the past; many modern modern drivetrains and differentials do indeed make driving one feel little different to driving a conventional 2wd…
However, when you start driving 4x4 in Low Range, first of all you’ll be staggered by the amount of torque the vehicle generates in terms of simple pulling power, albeit at much lower speeds - but the other issue is that the turning circle tends to be SIGNIFICANTLY reduced…
All of a sudden a vehicle that is quite nimble and agile in 2wd suddenly requires the turning circle of an oil tanker…
Being pragmatic - it’s highly unlikely that any CFAV will “need” to use the full range of off road ability a 4wd can provide - but - being realistic… can anyone genuinely not imagine that the moment a CFAV gets the opportunity to try something more heroic than they’ve been trained for… that they’re not going to pass off the opportunity…
Being taught how to correctly and safely use a 4wd to its full range of abilities is a LOT of fun - trying to figure it out by “trial and error” tends to be very expensive!
Excuse what could be a stupid question but…
Why are 4x4s more expensive than vans or 50/50s?
Just the price set in the contract. We don’t typically have any in MT to borrow so they have to be leased.
Traditionally everything was leased so it wasn’t really that much of an issue, now most things are provided by MT with only a few things coming from lease. This means the difference between an MT 50/50 and a lease 4x4 is significant.
Why is there such a big thing over driving a 4x4 
You can’t take them off-road unless you’ve done the right course and cars/crew-cabs/minibuses do the same thing. They are only used a fancy safety vehicles.
I can fully understand the need to do a bit of training and get signed off to go off road properly. But it’s incredibly OTT to require a separate fam/sign off just to drive something with 4 wheel drive. But then I suppose it’s also a bit silly that things like vans and 50/50s also require a separate sign off even though they are still in the same B class for a normal license.
…a fam is needed when it is already on a DVLA licence.
Those with D1 licence, still need a Fam on a Minibus (the only acception I am aware of is if taught by Leconsfield it is accepted that the MOD provided training was the Fam)
A Transit van also needs a separate sign off, despite being the same size, shape and chassis vehicle as a Transit minibus. People have had a fam in a transit minibus and then completed a fam in a Transit van despite the driver having a DVLA issued B and D1 licence
I can only imagine the “fam” for every “type” of vehicle is because of the weird and wonderful options available to the MOD, be that large trucks, tanks, or “airport” style vehicles (particularly for BZN) even more so where there is no DVLA equivalent - and because no one wants to draw a line on where it is not required, everything requires a Fam
I’m not sure, the only reason they used to be requested was transport of OME as you require a split cab for certain pyro. The same thing can be achieved in a 50/50 though.
Managing drivers, we still have to teach experienced drivers how to open the bonnet of a Transit where they’ve only known Sprinters, so I’m not too against this in general.
This to me though is weird. When I did my 600, D1 drivers were fammed on minibus then signed off for everything up to that. Cat B drivers were fammed in a people carrier then signed off for everything up to Large Van.