great…dont bother investing in the exisitng local units!
(not sure if the link posted correctly but just google schools week !)
Is this really true? i find it hard to believe that the ATC and SCC combined are only 6,000 cadets stronger than the ACF
Makes perfect sense if we do our research!
CEP is not primarily an MOD initiative, the lead Dept is DfE; and the wider context is the Military Ethos programme in schools, to which CEP contributes.
DfE see CCF as a means to improve self-discipline in schools, and thus improve attendance and achievement.
Cheers
BTI
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Regardless of the risk to existing non CCF units which are nearby
Rgeardless of the lack of insfrastructure to support expansion of unit
Regardless of the lack to support to those unit beyond the school gate
As said previously there are a number of politicians and civil servants (across the political spectrum) who would have been in schools with a CCF contingent and to that end the community based units are invisible, despite when MPs attend local events and see cadets out doing the good stuff in the community, they will invariably be from commuity units, even if there is a CCF. We have a CCF in a town in our Wing and the OC of the ATC sqn has said you never see them at local events. In his words, all probably gone home for the weekend. As such IF the initiative was to have more “CCF” (which as I understand it will in the main only be Army) you could see the whole citizenship side could be lost. That said in nigh on 40 years in the Corps, I have never seen any Army cadets supporting local events, thought I have but they’ve turned out to be air cadets in DPM.
When I next see my MP I might just have a chat about this. I’ve got to know him pretty well over the years through the other things I do.
I can’t see any senior types across the cadet forces getting too upset, as they will just see their fiefdoms get larger.
The irony is they would primarily attract good attenders and achievers, as their target group probably won’t be in school and or wouldn’t want to stay there longer than they had to.
We’ve got cadets from 6 schools who all get on in different ways, who would never have met, which has to be better for the community as a whole in the longer term, than promoting insularity. I’m sure there are a many squadrons in the Corps which have cadets from all parts of a diverse community and different schools who do more, even in a small way, for community cohesion than single schools could ever do.
Is there anyone with any knowledge of one of these as I’m intrigued to find out how they are staffing them, given from what you see in the press teachers are reluctant to do much more than what they contracted to do.
Is this really true? i find it hard to believe that the ATC and SCC combined are only 6,000 cadets stronger than the ACF[/quote]
5710 at last count (I assume figures are rounded to the nearest 10 as I didn’t read all the blurb). Remember that the SCC are really quite a small organisation. Amusingly they also have the highest adult volunteer to cadet ratio at 1:2, as opposed to 1:3 for the ATC and 1:5 for the ACF (these figures are rounded and I ignored the CCF).
In our CCF-RAF section we have over 100 cadets and 4 staff. That is worse than 1:25. I presume other CCF units are fairly similar.
No wonder the CCF struggles with its standards - maybe you (ATC) guys should cut us more slack!
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In our CCF-RAF section we have over 100 cadets and 4 staff. That is worse than 1:25. I presume other CCF units are fairly similar.
No wonder the CCF struggles with its standards - maybe you (ATC) guys should cut us more slack![/quote]
You shouldn’t need to be supervised to get a proper haircut.
^^^^
Sadly typical misunderstanding of the CCF world!
And let’s continue with the serious discussion rather than baiting people please.
Has anyone considered doing one of those online petitions to get the govt to notice us?
Education is a devolved issue. The welsh, Scottish and NI governments decide how the money is spend. Is the £50,000,000 going to be split to the 4 regions of the UK or will the whole lot be for England? wales will probably get £1,500,000 going by population split NI slightly less and Scotland about £3,000,000. At the going rate of a new hut at RFCA prices that is about 6 prefabs or one purpose built building.
Also £50,000,000 is greater than the ATC budget, with the ATC suddenly find itself with a huge wodge of cash which it will have to spend or will the RFCA empire suddenly grow by £50 million?
If the money was split between units in all 3 CF directly, not given to various HQs/RFCA to waste, you’d get quite a tidy sum. I don’t know how many ATC, ACF and SCC units there are but if there are 3000, that would be £16K+. Even as a one off payment it would be extremely useful; IT, AT, SOV are immediate things that spring to mind. Bloody good party could be in the offing, but probably frowned upon. Better than wasting it on a school project, that IMO is only going dilute what we already have and add nothing.
From “TSP7 - UK Reserve Forces and Cadets” published May 2014 table of cadet forces strength the ATC and SCC have about 63000 cadets, or 13,000 more than the ACF.
From “TSP7 - UK Reserve Forces and Cadets” published May 2014 table of cadet forces strength the ATC and SCC have about 63000 cadets, or 13,000 more than the ACF.[/quote]
I think you are reading the wrong number, old fruit. The ATC and SCC have around 63,000 total personnel - that includes CFAVs.
In the table, who or what is “Community Cadet Forces”?
They don’t mean Combined Cadet Force by any chance, which isn’t what I’d regard as a Community Cadet Force unless by community you are talking about the insular bubble of a school.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=25661]In the table, who or what is “Community Cadet Forces”?
They don’t mean Combined Cadet Force by any chance, which isn’t what I’d regard as a Community Cadet Force unless by community you are talking about the insular bubble of a school.[/quote]
By community cadet forces they mean those in the community as opposed to school based, basically ACF, ATC and SCC.
Be careful, political lobbying is a serious no-no for staff and likely to result in a servere telling off. Possibly sacking.
It is one of those situations where you get a sense that the people who should be fighting our corner aren’t. There seems to have been little or nothing from the top to oppose this and say there is already x thousand units already out there providing what they want, who would benefit from direct funding and support/promotion in schools and this isn’t required.
When we had a presentation on this, one of the concerns was the actual longevity of new school units, given it only takes a new headmaster/mistress or governors to say don’t like something in a school and that’s it. But in this time local ‘open’ units could have been lost. I know there is a reluctance to shut units, but they were it would be nigh on impossible to restart it if the school unit shut.
I imagine that the DfE position is that the CCF is the logical delivery model - if they are trying to target certain sections of a captive audience (which they clearly are)
If CCF is made part of the school day, or is immediately after school, it is likely to attract cadets who may not make the effort to seek out - have knowledge of how to seek out - community CF units.
I would argue that it’s a different target market, and membership of a CCF is very likely to be a very different “cadet experience”; with a greater emphasis on military training, rather than community events, AT, and other activities such as DofE.
Cadets wanting the full “cadet experience” might join / be motivated to join community CF units, whereas less well motivated cadets - but who are nonetheless attracted to the CF, and arguably might therefore benefit most from a more “military” cadet experience - might be captured by a state-sector school CCF.
I personally believe there is more than enough market share for both forms of CF, offering a different “cadet experience”, based on their differing circumstances. Let’s be honest, there are plenty of community CF units where the nature and quality of the “cadet experience” varies hugely …so it cannot really be argued that either delivery model is a panacea.
At the end of the day, cadets can also do both should they wish to (ref. JSP814) and arguably in most cases the market will do its work. Well motivated cadets will seek out community CF units (esp. if their school CCF doesn’t have a full Contingent, and doesn’t offer the flavour of CF they would prefer); whereas state-school CCFs will - likely - be a mixture of DfE’s “target market” and, arguably, a smaller number of well motivated students. In this environment it will be the ACF who will be the greatest losers I believe.
Independent sector CCFs are a whole other kettle of fish!
Finally, just to be controversial, I wonder how many community CF units who are concerned about / complain about planned CEP CCF units; actively recruit from schools, and the schools at which the CCFs are to be established? Is there not - in many cases - an element of trying to bar the door after the horse has bolted? …if community CF units were the perfect delivery model, arguably there would be no need for state-sector CCFs!
Discuss…
Cheers
BTI
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