Money and the Air Training Corps

I was in wing HQ this lunchtime to hear our new E1 tell a CFAV that he couldn’t accept a camp payment as it was in cash and not by cheque. I left briskly before he could notice that a sealed envelope I’d given him not 2 minutes earlier contained cash for the very same camp.

It occurs to me that the ATC is going to fall over in the not-too-distant future if it doesn’t do something to modernise its finance handling as the world is moving on. The elimination of the cheque as a valid means of payment (as threatened recently and as still on the cards) would be catastrophic to the way we currently operate and I wonder what scope we have for adopting modern payment methods whilst maintaining the controls currently in place.

Is this something which JPA could handle in its entirety, or at least assist with?

Assuming a world without cheques (and ruling out working solely with cash), what would we need to have in place to be able to continue to operate effectively and safely in the modern world?

I read your first sentence and my immediate reaction was: cheques? who takes cheques now?

we still use cheque regularly in the Wing and on Sqn as a deposit/payment for a camp/event and is a good point well made…

BACS transfers & internet banking. Simples.

Being able to accept payments by credit/debit card or paypal (and similar), directly to an activity or fund, would seem to be a “must have”. That would require some form of payment portal, possibly centrally managed, which would allow wings or even squadrons to create an “activity” in the system and accept payments into that activity.

I’m sure the main argument against that would be the fees charged by the portal. BACS is free and could be attached to an activity by use of the activity reference number issued on approval.

[quote=“incubus” post=9107]I was in wing HQ this lunchtime to hear our new E1 tell a CFAV that he couldn’t accept a camp payment as it was in cash and not by cheque. I left briskly before he could notice that a sealed envelope I’d given him not 2 minutes earlier contained cash for the very same camp.

It occurs to me that the ATC is going to fall over in the not-too-distant future if it doesn’t do something to modernise its finance handling as the world is moving on. The elimination of the cheque as a valid means of payment (as threatened recently and as still on the cards) would be catastrophic to the way we currently operate and I wonder what scope we have for adopting modern payment methods whilst maintaining the controls currently in place.

Is this something which JPA could handle in its entirety, or at least assist with?

Assuming a world without cheques (and ruling out working solely with cash), what would we need to have in place to be able to continue to operate effectively and safely in the modern world?[/quote]

For an Annual Camp, cheques? How pray does the CC administer their finances on camp when all the payments have been made into the WHQ bank account? I would suggest your new E1 needs a bit of education. On second thoughts, since they were new, perhaps they hadn’t been given delegated financial authority to handle cash yet.

[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9117]For an Annual Camp, cheques? [/quote]This is a wing AT camp.

Wing don’t see a penny of the monies for blues camps - we have cadets bring it with them in cash.

[quote=“incubus” post=9118][quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9117]For an Annual Camp, cheques? [/quote]This is a wing AT camp.

Wing don’t see a penny of the monies for blues camps - we have cadets bring it with them in cash.[/quote]

Makes more sense.

[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9117]

For an Annual Camp, cheques? How pray does the CC administer their finances on camp when all the payments have been made into the WHQ bank account? I would suggest your new E1 needs a bit of education. On second thoughts, since they were new, perhaps they hadn’t been given delegated financial authority to handle cash yet.[/quote]

Seems a fairly sensible approach to me. Cadets all pay up in advance of the deadline. Treasurer banks the cheques and issues cash to the camp comm, who can then go to camp and pay the various bills.

saves the problem of little johnny turning up and ‘forgetting’ to bring their camp money with them (despite constantly having a supply of sweets from the spar). Also helps with the problem of cadets not bothering to turn up for the bus. At least if their parents have paid in advance, they might get round to kicking them out of bed.

Or, another radical thought (and it’ll never happen, as it involves common sense). Wing get the money in advance, bank it, and then the station simply charges the wing UIN for the messing for the nominal roll submitted in advance. No cash needs to be touched. Remainder of the money goes with Camp comm as cash for off station visits (or wing could even book them in advance and get better deals).

That would reduce the admin burden on the volunteer, as they would have far less cash to balance and account for at camp (If your reading this Auntie Dawn, your welcome).

As far as i’m aware, all camps and courses in our wing are paid for via cheque.

[quote=“ex-bawtryboy” post=9120][quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9117]

For an Annual Camp, cheques? How pray does the CC administer their finances on camp when all the payments have been made into the WHQ bank account? I would suggest your new E1 needs a bit of education. On second thoughts, since they were new, perhaps they hadn’t been given delegated financial authority to handle cash yet.[/quote]

Seems a fairly sensible approach to me. Cadets all pay up in advance of the deadline. Treasurer banks the cheques and issues cash to the camp comm, who can then go to camp and pay the various bills.

saves the problem of little johnny turning up and ‘forgetting’ to bring their camp money with them (despite constantly having a supply of sweets from the spar). Also helps with the problem of cadets not bothering to turn up for the bus. At least if their parents have paid in advance, they might get round to kicking them out of bed.

Or, another radical thought (and it’ll never happen, as it involves common sense). Wing get the money in advance, bank it, and then the station simply charges the wing UIN for the messing for the nominal roll submitted in advance. No cash needs to be touched. Remainder of the money goes with Camp comm as cash for off station visits (or wing could even book them in advance and get better deals).

That would reduce the admin burden on the volunteer, as they would have far less cash to balance and account for at camp (If your reading this Auntie Dawn, your welcome).[/quote]

Except it doesn’t. It loads a massive burden on the Wing Treasurer to ensure all cheques are banked, that refunds are issued to those who cancel with the right notice, ensuring that payment has been made by the right cadets for the right weeks, then issuing monies to the Camp Comms, who will have to drive to WHQ to collect it, and then sign a financial delegated authority form as they are handling civ com funds.

Or.

Sqn Cdrs take the cash off the attending cadets, hold it locally, then hand it to an attening member of staff or senior cadet to take with them, who then hand it to the CC. The CC then operates like they have been doing for years, ensure no cash is returned to WHQ (refunds to cadets at the end of week) and submits the accounts as required.

I’m not sure how your method results in less cash being handled on camp. Payments for rations need to be made to station funds and this isn’t something which can be done in advance as the numbers can always fluctuate, even by one person. The rest is required on site for payments for activities. The Wing Treasurer would still need to write a cheque to the station UIN, ensure it doesn’t get lost in the post, ensure the right references are made for the particular week. In fact what you have done is move the responsibility from one volunteer to another and made it a little more difficult and harder to resolve if there’s a problem.

Or…

Squadron pays for the camp. Cadet makes a donation for a spookily similar amount of money to the squadron funds. Sqn claims Gift Aid on the donation.

[quote=“Baldrick” post=9124]Or…

Squadron pays for the camp. Cadet makes a donation for a spookily similar amount of money to the squadron funds. Sqn claims Gift Aid on the donation.[/quote]

Interesting way of approaching it.

[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9125][quote=“Baldrick” post=9124]Or…

Squadron pays for the camp. Cadet makes a donation for a spookily similar amount of money to the squadron funds. Sqn claims Gift Aid on the donation.[/quote]

Interesting way of approaching it.[/quote]

Potentially fraudulent…

[quote=“Baldrick” post=9127][quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9125][quote=“Baldrick” post=9124]Or…

Squadron pays for the camp. Cadet makes a donation for a spookily similar amount of money to the squadron funds. Sqn claims Gift Aid on the donation.[/quote]

Interesting way of approaching it.[/quote]

Potentially fraudulent…[/quote]

In fact, not possible to do. Cadets aren’t tax payers and therefore you cannot claim Gift Aid

[quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9130][quote=“Baldrick” post=9127][quote=“Operation Nimrod” post=9125][quote=“Baldrick” post=9124]Or…

Squadron pays for the camp. Cadet makes a donation for a spookily similar amount of money to the squadron funds. Sqn claims Gift Aid on the donation.[/quote]

Interesting way of approaching it.[/quote]

Potentially fraudulent…[/quote]

In fact, not possible to do. Cadets aren’t tax payers and therefore you cannot claim Gift Aid[/quote]

But their parents are…

And its only fraud if you’re caught (and cant afford a good brief to get you off :wink: )

I can’t believe the convoluted methods described. For as many years as I can remember locally organised camps and blue camps - cash/cheque paid to sqns and other camps either cheques made out to wing/region or paid into sqn and consolidated cheque passed on.

Other than that I personally feel at sqn level money should be cash/cheque through CWC treasurer with 2 from 3 signing cheques, or OC with a cash financial delegation for local expenses supported with receipts. We did look ay direct debit for subs but there were set up costs which were prohibitive and unlikely to be recouped, so they are done by standing order.

As for the gift aid scenario, I’m unsure how you would be caught if you did it, given that you get donations and spend them how you see fit. As long as an individual making the payment/donation signs to say they want GA recouped (within the laid down rules), the key word here is - individual, you can claim GA. I’ve been to various places and been asked to ‘gift aid’ my entrance fee, so could not a camp fee be treated as an “entrance fee”. I’ve never quite grasped how the entrance fee is a donation. So to that end a camp fee could be regarded as donation.

I’m uneasy about online banking for a organisation or local group, as the money is not for an individual to do with as they please.

My wing insist on annual camp being paid only in cash, that money is then taken to camp by the Member of staff and handed over to the Camp Comm for use and payments while away.

As staff I wouldnt be happy with carrying wads of cash round with me…