Is there any ACPs referencing the use of mobile phones whilst on camp and specifically if staff can take phones of cadets?
I feel like thereās some missing context that would help shape any replies you might receiveā¦
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Depending where you are, there may be station standing orders.
In general I wouldnāt ever take a phone off a cadet (there are extreme exceptions) because Iād it gets accidentally damaged whose held liable. Add the fact their ID is now on for most of them.
You will have to adhere to MoD policy of PED RED, PED amber and PED green.
As a cadet without SV, expect no phones in amber or red zones.
Anything elseā¦ Well thatās local instruction.
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There are no policies in any ACP that I know of that would permit this
CFAV cannot demand that cadets hand them over - especially now that weāve introduced the MyRAFAC App.
Considering how much some of these phones cost, even looking after them at the cadets request is a nono!
Done it once for an incident, RAFP said I should not of done it - wound their necks in once I told them why.
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The only times I would consider it appropriate would be if there had been a serious incident and cadets were taking photos of the aftermath, or to aid in evidence preservation for a potential safeguarding incident where it is known (not suspected) that the evidence is contained on the phone and there is a risk of the cadet deleting that evidence. The latter would only be done once CivPol or RAFP (as appropriate) were aware.
I know some units that do it on camps. Collect phones in and keep them in a safe. Then allow access for certain times during the week. Iāve certainly seen this at Windermere before too.
Iāve also been in one situation where all cadets were told to turn their phones off because of an incident, but they werenāt taken off them.
Years ago there was something about banning phones on campā¦maybe it was a local thing for me.
Basically cadet rang home misleadibgly saying they werent being fed and caused chaos
Lots of possible scenarios - Cadet A keeps taking pictures of other cadets - who do not have listed permission to go on social media - & despite their concerns, Cadet A plonks them on Insta, whatever.
I think there is a common sense approach to be had, there is no formal policy beyond station standing orders. For example, cadets taking photos of aircraft with full pylons taking off while on camp in Cyprus isnāt great for all sorts of reasons so control of phones is exercised and sensible briefings in place. The policy should be known to all, including parents ahead of time so as they arenāt expecting a check in message or call or arenāt surprised when their child is not contactable.
Taking a phone off a cadet is a last resort when likely it is to isolate the phone for some reason. The Cadet would (rightly) object a lot and it would likely lead on to a larger problem with them.
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at which point does this become a RAFAC issueā¦the same could happen in school, or down the park.
While CFAVs are obligated follow protocol and to not share photos and data are the Cadets under the same expectations?
When someone takes a selfie on camp, and it includes a Cadets without photo permission who is to blame?
the photographer for not checking if everyone is ok about it?
the Cadet without permission for not either getting out of the photo, or not speaking up and asking not to share it online
or the CFAVs in the office 100+yards away (ie out of sight) who had no idea the photo was being taken yet to blame for not collecting in all cameras??
Photo permission is given for a specific purpose. Where cadets are giving photo permission, they are essentially giving permission for the organisation to publish their photo on social media/websites etc. They have technically not given permission for Cadet Bloggs to take their photo and put it on their own social media, so in reality no one has āpermissionā in that sense. They also donāt really need it as they are private individuals doing their own thing.
If you were to be sent said selfie by a cadet, then you would then need photo permission from everyone in it to put on the organisation social media.
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the question was rhetorical highlighting how we cannot control what the kids do ie what MikeJenvey was suggesting - on the implication the policy can only exist on what we can control
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Other than incidents as mentioned above where I think it would be best to confiscate phones first and apologise later, this will come down to parental consent. Boarding schools will have a policy on this (e.g. ours is that Y11 and below hand their phones in at bedtime and receive them back after breakfast, and they can be confiscated by staff if a breach of school rules or a safeguarding issue is suspected) but this
is with parental consent when the pupil joins the school.
Sounds like RAFAC, Region, Wing or Sqn need a policy and parental consent to confiscation of mobile phones under some circumstances.
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Iāve applied this approach on camps in the past (to Y9&10 cadets), matching my own schoolās policy and in line with National Minimum Standards - staff on camp not from a boarding context have agreed with this approach as sensible. Lock them in camp office overnight or if not lockable, duty officer takes them overnight (though pinging notifications is awful when inevitably they havenāt been turned off/silenced.)
I gather that the RN Cadets introduced a new policy just last week? - all cadet mobile devices are handed in at the start of a residential camp/course and returned at the conclusion with no access during.
That seems like massive overkill. We live in āthe digital ageā and thereās nothing wrong with cadets using their phones at certain times during camps.
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Agreed. I imagine itās a knee jerk, overkill reaction to an incident, as with so many new policies
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Cadets in general are pretty good at responding to āordersā, Iāve never had a problem if you make it clear to them the restrictions on a phones use. You cannot take a phone off them (exemption on securing criminal evidence). If you take hold of their phone, you become responsible for its safe keeping and should anything happen to it then you could well be in unwanted poop! Would you want to be responsible for several thousand Ā£Ā£??. Phones are more than just a communication device, they have their ID, banking and more on them that may be needed during a duty.
To stir things upā¦Charging of personal phones on MOD property could be considered as theft of electricity, recording devices are restricted on most MOD establishments. What about PAT testing, fire risks, electrical safety???