[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=21385][quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
God there’s a lot of twaddle going on in here.
D1 permits someone to drive a vehicle with UPTO 16 passengar seats.
Section 19 permits allow certain organisations, including schools, to make a charge without having to comply with the full public service vehicle operator requirements AND without the need for the driver to have a PCV (Category D1 or D) entitlement.
The MOD (via white fleet) don’t like the risk of allowing non D1 users to drive a vehicle with up to 16 PAX seats without training, hence they stipulate D1 requirement (and provide the training free of charge)
SOVs/WOVs (since they are privately owned) can exercise the Section 19 permit in the full capacity and do not require a D1 nor operator requirements.
All SOVs/WOVs need to display a Section 19 permit, regardless of the category that the driver holds - to exempt the driver from the requirement to follow operator regs (eg. tacho). Get stopped by the cops, and face prosecution! Drivers responsibility, no exemtions/defence in law.[/quote]
You do require a D1 if the MAM of the vehicle is over 3500kg, which most 17 seat and some 15 seat buses are, or if you want to be able to tow a trailer of up to 750kg.
[quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
The D1 is no such exemption. It’s just a licence category.
Re drivers: Our minibus is insured by a company in the southeast (I forget the name) that insures an awful lot of SOVs and is very reasonably priced. The insurance permits the SOV to be driven by ANYONE between the ages of 25 & 65, provided that they have the required D licence. We also have registered named drivers younger than 25 and older than 65. Affiliation with the ACO is not required and DBS checks are manifestly not required, as there should be a member of ACO staff aboard to supervise the cadets in any case.
Consequently, we make use of parents as drivers, in addition to ACO staff and civcom. I do however, stipulate that they have suitable experience of driving such vehicles and that they read and sign squadron MT orders.
[quote=“redowling” post=21386][quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=21385][quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
God there’s a lot of twaddle going on in here.
D1 permits someone to drive a vehicle with UPTO 16 passengar seats.
Section 19 permits allow certain organisations, including schools, to make a charge without having to comply with the full public service vehicle operator requirements AND without the need for the driver to have a PCV (Category D1 or D) entitlement.
The MOD (via white fleet) don’t like the risk of allowing non D1 users to drive a vehicle with up to 16 PAX seats without training, hence they stipulate D1 requirement (and provide the training free of charge)
SOVs/WOVs (since they are privately owned) can exercise the Section 19 permit in the full capacity and do not require a D1 nor operator requirements.
All SOVs/WOVs need to display a Section 19 permit, regardless of the category that the driver holds - to exempt the driver from the requirement to follow operator regs (eg. tacho). Get stopped by the cops, and face prosecution! Drivers responsibility, no exemtions/defence in law.[/quote]
You do require a D1 if the MAM of the vehicle is over 3500kg, which most 17 seat and some 15 seat buses are, or if you want to be able to tow a trailer of up to 750kg.[/quote]
^ and that
[quote=“redowling” post=21388][quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
The D1 is no such exemption. It’s just a licence category.[/quote]
D1 is a PSV licence. Therefore you don’t need a permit 19 if you have a D1. It is the permit 19 that’s the exemption from having a D1
[quote=“juliet mike” post=21396][quote=“redowling” post=21388][quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
The D1 is no such exemption. It’s just a licence category.[/quote]
D1 is a PSV licence. Therefore you don’t need a permit 19 if you have a D1. It is the permit 19 that’s the exemption from having a D1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
I believe the confusion here is caused by the fact that the s.19 permit actually does two things. Not just one.
First it negates the need for a PSV operator’s license. (Which you would sometimes need even if you did have a D1 License.) Second, it exempts those who qualify from needing a D1 license to drive the vehicle, they can drive on a B category license.
[quote=“juliet mike” post=21396][quote=“redowling” post=21388][quote=“juliet mike” post=21384]D1 allows you to drive upto 17 seats, including driver. No permit 19 is required as the Permit 19 is an exemption from needing a PSV licence, which the D1 is
Permit 19 allows non-D1 drivers to drive a minibus with restrictions provided it is not fur hire or reward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]
The D1 is no such exemption. It’s just a licence category.[/quote]
D1 is a PSV licence. Therefore you don’t need a permit 19 if you have a D1. It is the permit 19 that’s the exemption from having a D1
And remember that you can’t legally take a minibus of more than 8 seats to the continent without a raft of other things, such as a fitted Tachograph, Tachograph cards for each driver, Certificates of Competency for each driver and other bits of paperwork from VOSA.
A lot of ACO units fail to realise this and take their minibuses abroad, thereby putting themselves at risk of prosecution and potentially invalidating their insurance.
Our school has a fleet of minibuses of various types. The aging Renault Master and more recent Peugeot Boxer minibuses are under 3.5t and as long as you don’t mind the handbrake being on the ‘wrong’ side, the Peugeot isn’t bad. (Also the pedals are a bit close together, beware driving in combat boots.) My wife’s school has just bought a new Peugeot and it’s gone down well.
Our school’s latest purchase is a Ford Transit and although it’s a much better vehicle, it’s over 3.5t and consequently was a bit of a cockup as it prevents non-D1 drivers driving, as stated above. On our last exercise out in the field we had to do a complex minibus plot (using forks, spoons and cups to simulate D1 and non D1 drivers, and their vehicles!) to ensure the right drivers were in the right buses…
Most PHOENIX hires are Transits too but as stated above, the MOD doesn’t allow non-D1 drivers anyway.
Their MD is an RAFVR(T) and the policy for ACO covers arms and ammunition, fully comp business cover, airfield cover etc etc and as many drivers as you want. It also includes breakdown return to base cover. You will struggle to find that anywhere else.
Premium year one is about £900 if you have no insurance history as a Sqn - comes down annually after that. After 4 years with no claims, you are looking at about £550.
[/quote]
Can i just advise that’s the wrong KD Brokers just had an awkward conversation with them - however a little googling revealed the correct one - they don’t have a website and have just saved us £400 on our current insurer!!! 01843 847400. Awesome service and whats included is amazing!
