Was told recently that I need to keep a log of all my walks to keep my BELA current, to the tune of a rolling (?) ten days every two years. I passed BELA in 2006. This was never mentioned. Apparently it was ‘overlooked’
That’s fine I suppose, but I was also told that I need to list walks for the last two years to keep current. Is it right/legal to retrospectively demand something when you were not told about it in the first place?
We also have ten days to get our returns in…
I see this as another way the ATC will lose some of its ‘Venture Adventure’
Is this corps wide or have you been logging BELA days for years? I’d be interested to know whether it’s just us…
Logbooks have been a requirement inside the ATC for some years. If you did your BELA inhouse, i’d be surprised if it wasnt mentioned. Externally its highlighted as good practice, but may not have been mentioned explicitly as its not in the course content.
The logbook forms a way of WATTOs auditting your currency with regards NGB quals. Its ultimately flawed and relies entirely on trust. But its a hoop that is used.
Regarding the number of walks for BEL it is at WATTOs discretion. 10 walks might seem a lot - but you may be using BEL skills elsewhere which could be logged. Teaching IET, map reading or exped cooking should all be loggable activities and it is still keeping skills current. Do lofE walks, NNAS walks as well as expeds or even squadron camps (under canvas) could also be logged.
If you move to higher awards (HML, ML(S), or climbing etc) then your log can be done via a specific online logbook. All your cadet stuff should already be logged on SMS - but could be supplemented with any solo or developmental work you’ve done since 2006 as well.
Is it right to demand it with 10 days notice? Unfair maybe. But the 1st April deadline for Wing AT registers has been pretty firm for some years (maybe 18 years???) - so shouldn’t have been a surprise to your WATTO. Its also been publically available in the ACATIs via SharePoint for years too.
Is it legal? Its not a “legal” issue in terms of “the Law”. Its a rule of the club - not a legislative issue. No logbook, No AT register as the governance and due diligence checks required wont be in place to say that you’re fit to lead groups of young people (or staff) on low level walks.
I dont see this as a method of loosing the “Venture Adventure” - just a method of ensuring that people that are delivering adventurous activities to cadets are qualified, suitably experienced and current in what they do. Skills fade happens - this just helps ensure it doesnt happen at a critical point whilst you’re responsible for 8 people in the wilds of Buckinghamshire, Nottinghamshire or, godforbid, East Sussex!!!
This has always been the case in every wing I’ve come across people with these qualifications and is done to ensure ‘currency’ of your qualification. If you don’t go out walking personally, or leading groups with your qualification then your skills can diminish because you’re not using them, nor are you keeping up to date with any changes in governance etc.
Don’t want to sound harsh but as an OC, if I had a member of staff with this qualification, I’d expect them to be a walker and to use the qualifcation regularly. If it had been many years since you last walked personally or lead a group, I’d want to know you still know what you’re talking about before you took groups out as the lead. Surely, if you’ve got the qual you’re interested in walking and do so, meaning it shouldn’t be hard to get to 10 walking days in two years, with some leading cadets using your qualification?
A 10 day return is a little short if you’ve not got a logbook- I do for both BEL and ML and update it every time I walk or lead a group. Makes submitting it easy.
Regarding is it legal- for the reasons stated above, do you think someone who got their qualification over 10 years ago should be taken at face value, when it involves the safety of young people? Whether you were told about it or not, this has been policy for some time and as someone who holds the qualification I’d expect you to keep up to date with this. It’s the same for all AT quals because of the risks involved. It’s not trying to stop us doing things, it’s ensuring the people with the qualifications are safe to do so. As a WO I’d expect you to know that too.
I got my BEL award 7 years ago and it was policy well before that.
So somehow, my wing/region have managed to not use this system ever, at least for BELA.
I’m not saying it’s a bad idea, but I do wonder how it can have been bypassed all these years.
As it isn’t a Corps wide problem it will have less impact on the venture adventure element, but there will have been staff not logging enough days, who will now have to be ‘helped back to currency’ and I’m sure some won’t bother, and some won’t even get the email telling them to make a return because we don’t all have super efficient COs and Adjutants.
If there is a policy not being followed, why has it taken years before it being flagged up?
I’m not sure the number of walks should be at the WATTO’s discretion, surely it should be the same across the corps?
I’m surprised to hear that your wing, indeed region as a whole hasn’t been following this and wonder what the RATTO is doing as well as the WATTO.
This is why it happens- because some staff collect qualifications but never actually use them. If they try and turn around to tell me that they want to take a group out doing whatever AT activity, but the qualification they gained was done several years ago and had never been used, they wouldn’t be going unsupervised and wouldn’t be the lead.
If you’re not current, because you don’t go walking or use your qualification for the benefit of the cadets, they those people can’t complain when they’re told that their qualification has lapsed and they need to get up to speed. At the end of the day, we’re adults and need to be responsible for ourselves- would you rather a group of cadets go with someone who has used their qualification several times a year since qualifying, as well as enjoys personal walking, or would you go with the person who got the qual but never actually used it and doesn’t walk as a past-time?
I agre the criteria for number of logs should be across the board… my wing needs at least 3 personal walking days and 3 lead walking days. If you run D of E Bronze and Silver, or do a couple of nav walks it’s easy.
It’s not like a logbook is needless bureaucracy however, the first questions that would be asked in the event of a serious incident would centre around the instructors suitability to lead a group - if you don’t have evidence (of which logbook would form part) then you are heading up poo creek. So it’s protecting yourself as much as anyone else. Would you rather stand in court and refer to a logbook with details of your currency, or attempt to recall your experience over the preceding 24 months from memory - I know which I’d prefer.
There has obviously been some kind of failing here - a failure on the part of your CBEL course team to highlight the requirement for a logbook - if you did old style BEL I could believe this wasn’t mentioned, however if you have done CBEL it would be impossible for you to have not been told - given a logbook forms part of the assessment. A failure on the part of your Wing and Region team to not be checking this information off and reinforcing the need for currency is also fairly likely.
10 days notice is harsh - but it boils down to poor admin on the part of your Wing team - as they are no doubt scrambling to meet the April deadline for AT Registers to be completed, hence the tight turnaround. However, given that everyone should be keeping a logbook anyway - I would imagine they did not consider this such an issue…
I totally understand the requirement of a log book. However, in 12 years of holding (and regularly using) the BELA, this has not been mentioned once. I have been asked to fill in the last two years retrospectively, or one year if I have done six days in the last year.
If the register has to be completed every year, how have we got away without needing to comply?
I go out walking for fun but have never logged it and never been asked for anything.
I can’t see how you can get up to speed wrt walking and camping to the point where you become a danger.
Given that the AT Register should be collated at Region, I would imagine your RATTO just never bothered? Maybe they’ve had a kick up the bum by the TSA in your Region who has cottoned on to the fact that a Register isn’t in place. Have you had a new WATTO/RATTO? That could also explain it?
"1. Overall responsibility for the safe conduct of Adventurous Training (AT) within the ATC is vested in the Comdt AC and exercised through Wg Cdr Phys Ed with approval and accountability for individual activities delegated to the appropriate levels as indicated below1. Apart from the proviso at para 4a, all staff who supervise
AT activities must hold the appropriate National Governing Body (NGB) qualification, or an in-house or Competence through Experience (CTE2) endorsement, be current and authorised to conduct AT through the Wg AT Register."
ACATI 2 also details responsibility of the WATTO to collate the AT Register - but no mention of the RATTO at any point…
I see you’re ACATI 2 Annex A and raise your ACATI 5…
Presumably the RC gets involved since they are now the DDH for AT (regardless of their qualifications & experience!) and thus take advice from TSAs (also largely lacking in qualifications & experience in AT matters!) and RATTOs (ahhh!!!) on matters relating to AT. Like Log Books (as suggested in the TORS for RATTOs in ACATI 2 Annex B).
I’ve been in various Wings around the Corps and have always had to provide evidence annually to keep my place on the AT Register, so not sure why you’ve not been asked in the past.
To be honest, it’s a five minute job of filling in my personal details, any courses I’ve attended in the last twelve months, along with first aid date and then I’ve had to list between 3 and 5 examples of AT that has matched my quals - the amount required varies from Wing to Wing.
If you’re active with the Sqn / Wing then the details could be picked up from Bader in my opinion and we could skip this paperwork exercise but I always include a mix of ATC and private walks / mountain biking to show variety and that it’s not all DofE, which is the extent of AT in a lot of Sqns!
If you’re not active in the Wing and have AT quals then the question should be why not, what’s stopping you, how can the WATTO assist you to use the quals for the benefit of the Cadets.
It is completely flawed, reliant on trust and honesty, as no-one has ever checked what I put down is accurate unless they are cross-referencing to SMS without my knowledge, but that would’t prove any private stuff I put down.