Lack of support/structure of training in CCF (and ATC integration)


Being an officer in both an ATC Squadron and a CCF RAF Section, both parading over 60, I have seen a number of massive differences that seem inexcusable.

  1. Lack of PTS Training in CCF.

While I have been trained to do up to Bronze Comms, Bronze Cyber and YFA in the ATC, no such opportunities have been made available for any of the staff in my CCF or those in CCFs anywhere near us to do the same. So there is no training to provide CCF staff with the quals to teach PTS to their cadets. Where this becomes very noticeable is where ATC cadets are covered in badges, at CCF events, the average cadet holds First Class/Part 1 and an out of date shooting badge. As of yet, I am still waiting to receive an official email from the CCF CoC informing us that we now use the PTS!

  1. Lack of inter-CCF (joint) Activities

I’m ATC there are always courses at wing, but at CCF, we never do Training with other CCFs and other than the AST Competition and camp, we never see other CCFs. Maybe because no one in the CCF is trained on the PTS so we just don’t bother with courses!

  1. Lack of encouragement from HQAC to do ATC and CCF joint activities

Although both my squadron and CCF do a lot together (due to my involvement with both), I think it is a shame that more is not done to integrate the two sub-organisations.

Any comments or ideas from CCF or ATC staff?


Our local CCF have always been invited to wing courses but have attended on one occasion…the offer still goes out every time


@Balders, as a CCF Test Officer I don’t know how much you have to do with the PTS?

I am not meaning to sound sarcy, but wonder what your opinion is. Ta :blush:


@TimSqn granted there is a lack cohesion in trg of staff for PTS quals. It is something that is being looked into and addressed. We encourage our sections to interact and do joint trg with their local ATC units, but as I am sure you appreciate it is very much personality driven, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. With the standing up of Area Teams of CFAVs (Area Mentors and Leadership Teams) there should be an an increase in area courses. The best bet is to speak with your Area TEST Team to see what is going on in your area. I can confirm we are using the PTS within the CCF.


I would agree that generally CCFs do their own thing and don’t get involved outside their contingent but that comes from

  1. most of the staff being teachers who see it as an afternoon extra curricular activity.
  2. ATC not inviting them to courses (or messages not getting through)
  3. The history behind CCF being independent from HQ and local training ‘traditions’ emerging.

I’m running an RAF section of about 50 kids and not a teacher so I sign up to everything I can and find that whenever I contact the local wing about wanting to get cadets onto courses like radio, road marching etc I get sent the details and am now slowly getting onto mailing lists. Also found that contacting the local Region meant we got involved in several RAF100 events without having been on the initial invite list.

I’ve also contacted another local school and at Easter we’re running a bronze leadership (with TEST blessing) to which at least 3 ATC squadrons are sending candidates.

The chances are there but it seems to be that the CCF staff need to do the legwork to build personal contacts.


Sometimes down to the “personalities” involved. My CCF Test Officer seemed anti us doing anything with the ATC and even went as far as blocking some of my efforts to get more integration. I was ATC Sqn OC and CCF CEP at the time.


@juliet_mike I am sorry you had such an experience, I always recommend new CEP sections speak to local ATC units and encourage cadets to “dual-hat” and even better if CFAVs are keen to work for both sides of the house. Hopefully you have overcome the issues and your Sqn and Section are flourishing.


Is it not time to amalgamate both organisations into one ATC/CCF. Same with the Army cadets/CCF and SCC/CCF.


Having worked on “both sides of the house” at first glance I can see how this might be the obvious solution, however there are a considerable number of differences that would make this a mammoth undertaking. Which in general long run may cause more harm than good. Before members round on me for being elitist I am a big proponent of joint working between CCF and Community based units and would encourage you all to put as much effort as you can in to making this a more common place practice.