Directly, probably not.
Indirectly, it’s that sort of thing that’s hugely beneficial in civvy street.
How many 18 year-olds off of the street have had that level of responsibility?
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ever increasing - nail on head.
as i understand it back in the golden era of “jet planes” (50s/60s) the airlines would train you up, they took on the financial burden of the training and gave you a job afterwards - yes there was some selection process to go through but nowadays its flipped.
the industry is desperately short of pilots but gone are these training bursaries and the in house training courses and expect the want-to-be pilot to pay for it…
how to encourage people to fill a gap - make them pay huge sums of money for it!
That doesn’t really tell me a lot. I was hoping for a little more detail.
It does depend how you get into the civil aviation industry, numerous pilots I know started working in the industry for companies starting in places like operations or engineering. Two of them started in operations accepted very low pay for hours sponsorship are now Lear jet captains, one started in engineering is now a first officer. One guy I know started as a baker now a first officer for Cathy Pacific. Others started as 16 year olds working at flying clubs at weekends and gaining hours that way. Most are instructors so they make their money and hours that way. There is more than one way into the right hand seat than through a cadet pilot scheme with an airline.
But these are all long, convoluted methods, and rely on the individual to stick with them until success.
Surely it would be better for all concerned to provide trainee schemes that don’t rely on your parents re-mortgaging your house to pay for training, after which you might not be given a job offer?
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Maybe long and maybe convoluted but those who choose this route have far more basic flying hours and a far deeper knowledge than those who go through the cadet system. Long and convoluted, you just need to look at the RAF system from IOT to combat ready these days takes just as long. No 21 year old pilots flying Lightnings or Vulcans these days.
Learning to fly is through application and drive to succed not just cash.
I think that would be a great idea, if you could tick off ECO, IWT, RCO/coaching and MQUAL pls AFA for those who don’t have it. Throw in some leadership, some exercises and range time and it would be a solid basis for staff to run greens activities and also as prep for SAAI for those who want to. Does sound a bit like the ACF’s initial staff course though!
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Topic anyone?
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i only did one big long course - gliding - and a couple of Germany camps (which i accept puts me solidly in the ‘you lucky, lucky fatherless’ bracket…), but i felt so grateful to the ACO for the things it had shown me, the opportunities i’d had, that throughout my Army career i would feel guilty if i hadn’t helped out a cadet unit with something - gear, a visit, a couple of blokes on a Sqn camp, some logs or accomdation spt - that week.
the thing i think the ACO is pitifull at is not getting its senior cadets into uniform, its getting its ex-cadets who are in positions where they can help to do so.
i’m afraid the number of times i offered Exercise days/weekends/places, and space to camp that fell on deaf ears are too many for my fingers to count…
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The course was traditionally split into three phases, plus selection.
Selection was a weekend, about 120 would be invited after a paper sift of applications. We would then run the Phys test on a Friday evening. Each cadet had signed away to the fact they could meet the minimum Phys standards on their form, and every year a handful would fail and be sent home. (Sometimes they had a second crack at it on saturday morning.)
Saturday was spent assessing other things. There was a practical nav test. (Take bearings, walk on them, judge distances etc.) An assessed leadership task each, a Fieldraft paper exam, a group discussion, a 5 minute presentation and an interview. It was pretty intense and then we would have to sift them on Saturday Night and then split them into sections on Sunday, then initial kitting would commence.
In the early days, every applicant was kitted. However, in recent years uniform issue (as opposed to kit) was on the second weekend, that way only successful students were kitted. (It was new uniform we had to pay for, so costs were saved.)
Phase 1 was over four weekends, it focussed on leadership theory, more leadership tasks, navigation exercises, weapons training, more Fieldraft and more advanced Fieldraft (for Air Cadets mind, on my course we had a number of ACF and they all found the Fieldraft a doddle.) Presentation techniques continued with an assessed presentation or two. There was also an introduction to Orders groups. (Again, something the ATC don’t do, but ACF do.) We also had some planning exercises.
Phase 2 was the more field orientated phase, putting everything together in section leads. The aim was for every cadet to have two assessed ‘leads’ by the end of phase 2, we also continued to build upon the other aspects and look a bit at tactics. (Tactics wasn’t assessed per se, but decision making was partly to do with it.)
Whilr all this was going on, there was homework for the ILM, earlier courses also had an airpower module, but it was self study and eventually I think removed.
Phase 3 is test. A week long exercise with cadets in the field continuously.
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out of interest how many didn’t pass?
and were candidates binned during the build up of phase 1&2?
I’m curious as I don’t know of any story someone was selected but didn’t complete, and then pass, the course
A combination of factors really.
The biggest attrition came from drop outs. Attendance was pretty crucial and there was an unwritten rule that you could miss one weekend but miss two and you just wouldn’t catch up.
The ideal was that everyone who went to test would pass, because we were meant to weed out poor candidates during the earlier phases, the last weekend of phase 2 would be where we would cull. But realistically we didn’t need to fail that many. We lost more to poor attendance, withdrawals and injury.
thank you
i thought that would be the case.
a shame some are injury based given the course is a leadership course, what injury would stop someone being a good leader, but the way leadership is applied in the JL course i get it.
I know one Squadron who had two ex-cadets come and visit and basically said you get down to us, we’ll arrange the accomodation and have a word to arrange some flying. CO gobsmacked (I’m sure they were in on the co-locaton plans just hadn’t told the Squadron or it’s staff) as the Sqaudron not long after was told it was co-locating for that read it’s merging in October this year when all the fuss has died down.
We’ve had some interesting debates on that very issue in the past in fact.
Which is why we have Staff Cdts as well as Staff on everyone of the Fieldcraft Instructor Courses my Wing runs. Well said Talon.
If the biggest attrition is drop outs.
What happens to all the pucker kit which has been bought for them? Returned?
If this is the case that people are dropping out in any numbers, then that is a good enough reason to scale the course WAY back.
Clearly not enough commitment.
Or make parents sign a legal doc, saying they will foot the bill if their brats no show.
The equipment (as opposed to uniform) is returned, and there is a £100 kit deposit as an incentive/insurance)
Uniform is returned if possible, but isn’t as much of an expense.
What covers the higher cost of the rail warrants when a cadet misses 2 weekends due holidays or other family stuff and doesnt return.
Money expended and thus wasted on that cadet.
Until now unless finishing the course the cadets received nothing.
Again. I have nothing against JLs or the course. Only the huge cost.
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We have gotten too fixed as an Organisation on “every activity must be a success” failure isn’t always a bad thing, considering that Cadets aren’t allowed to fail in anything I don’t see it as a bad thing that they can fail at one of the top courses in the organisation.
As for the expense, in the big picture of budgets the money is already spent the moment you decide the course is going to happen.
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