this is the original post, would just like some ideas of any other jobs you think nco’s should or could have, the list atm is
Training flight
Uniform
Drill
Banner drill
Stores
DofE
Radio
Team Building/Initiative exercises
Sports assistant
Fieldcraft assistant
Air Recy
Thats a fair few at the moment, was just wondering if you knew of any others or any that you do on your squadron
Further to the comments on that thread, the need for NCOs to have jobs per se seems to be unnessersary imo, rather they are knowledgable individuals having spent a longer time in teh Corps than the cadets. The job of an NCO first and foremost to lead the cadets in their charge to success in everything that they attempt. Then you come onto the 3D’s which will be monitored by your Adult NCO of senior cadet NCO if no Adult NCOs.
At the end of the day they should have some responsibility passed onto them/shared with staff if they are staff cadets to prepare them and help them tio understand what being staff is about. When they are CADET ncos then they should still enjoy coming to cadets, and never consider it a burden. If your NCOs have fun, then so wil the cadets.
To be a cadet SME, they have no need of any qualifications, just experiance and knowledge of the subject so they can inform, or know where to look to get the information requested of them. To expect cadets to have completed a Coaching Course or other subject specific qualifications is unfair to say the least. Why NCOs can not teach leadership theories to cadets also baffles me, the ATC is all about passing knowledge on and not hoarding it. Not all cadets can do Wing NCO Courses, or as someone pointed out JL and ACLC, but the knowledge would still benefit the cadets.
I’d say that the answer lies somewhere between the two: remember that at the end of the day the NCOs are there to be developed, just like all of the cadets - so being involved in normal squadron training should take up most of their time.
That said, having small, personal roles gives them somewhere to grow as an NCO. For example, you could have an NCO as a deputy shooting officer, with a few small admin tasks such as keeping an eye on WHTs and informing the testing staff when expiry is imminent. That way, if someone comes on to the range with an expired WHT, then you know that the NCO hasn’t been doing their job properly!
[quote=“steve tanner” post=5093]https://www.facebook.com/groups/2409507084/10151283815737085/?notif_t=group_comment
this is the original post, would just like some ideas of any other jobs you think nco’s should or could have, the list atm is
Training flight
Uniform
Drill
Banner drill
Stores
DofE
Radio
Team Building/Initiative exercises
Sports assistant
Fieldcraft assistant
Air Recy
Thats a fair few at the moment, was just wondering if you knew of any others or any that you do on your squadron[/quote]
We have cadet NCOs running canteen. They buy the stock, set the prices, and are allowed to run special offers.
Each month they fill in a ‘report’ which goes to the Civ Com. It includes the expenses, revenue and profit for the month, and lists newly introduced or discontinued product lines.
A number of them have found the experience helpful when applying for part-time retail jobs, which is a bonus.
we have used in the past “key contacts” which matches the personal interests/experience/skills of some NCOs to roles.
We have an NCO who is a qualified football ref and holds sports awards,so is our "Sports NCO"
other exmaples include
one NCO is a radio amateur
another recruitment – suitable manner to deal with “newbies”
shooting (NCO experienced with all weapons and holding MM awards)
Cadet Training Courses (Typically the FS/CWO who has attended them all/majority)
Camps (one of our NCO’s attends at least one camp a year, often receiving best Camp Cadet)
Flying - the NCO who is a Staff Cdt at local VGS
Parades (typically a Sgt is nominated who will have attended the regularly yearly cycle worth of parades at least twice)
Public events (see Parades)
Etc etc
These NCOs are the first contact for the Cadets to speak to about an event/course/camp and also for the staff to get them to promote it to the Cadets/Squadron as a whole.
What is important is they are not made to feel that they need to be attending what they are organising. For example Regional swimming, two Cadets have been chosen to represent Wing and are briefed by the Sports NCO, who was handed the JIs from the staff. That NCO acts as a buffer of questions reaching the office, any they cant answer is brought to the office’s attention.
Or a FS looking after collecting names and then briefing the JIs to Cdts/Cpl going on a NCO course – takes away the pressure from the staff and gives responsibility to the NCOs that is easily managed and not too regular that it gets in the way (ie courses/camps are only every 3-4 months)
PS I haven’t looked at the FB thread as its blocked in work.
Call me old-fashioned but shouldn’t all NCOs be doing this anyway?
Given the transient nature of cadets and my own personal experience of trying to utilise them, I wouldn’t entrust any with a specific role until they are over 18 and out of education.
However I do think The Major has it about right in terms of what we should be expecting from NCOs, ie lead, develop and inform the cadets. Until as I say they reach an age where they can take extra responsibility and not disappoint.
no not old fashioned i would agree with what your saying
but in the same way shouldnt any staff member be the same?
be able to advise what a Cadet can expect from a First aid course, or radio course? what goes on during a GIC/AEF/GS and how to prepare for an NCO course?
however staff tend to wear various hats, which are quite specific to Cadet experience, Sqn sports officer, Sqn radio officer, Sqn flying officer etc etc…
in the same way a Sqn Actvity Officer role, is the key contact for the staff, there is the same within the NCO team.
the Sqn Shooting Officer is likely to be the Staff member with shooting quals, or at least an interest, or Sqn Radio Officer be an amateur.
the NCOs asked to “do more on Sqn” so we offered the idea and they took it, like i say rarely is there anything more than one event every quarter so gives them a level of responsibility without getting in the way all the time.
My “two stripes worth”…
Very much depends on the material you are working with.
Some of our young people are more mature and can handle responsibility than others.
I would expect NCOs to lead by setting an example of standards, in all aspects of the ATC. This includes the times when we need to be shouty and disciplined and also when’we let our hair down’ and have social events. And all points in between.
Putting it another way the NCOs are there to make the cadets look good. An NCO who grasps this will motor through the ranks.
I’ve been round the houses with giving NCOs jobs, having no roles etc. and I felt I ended up giving the less important roles to the people who didn’t show up (because the key roles needed to be done) but this has a cyclical effect of feeling not needed and therefore they turn up less. Either that or I inevitably had to give an NCO a job they didn’t want where a few of them have the same interests in certain activities.
NCOs being deputies for staff is another route I didn’t play with much. Instead I’d have 4 people (OIC, 2IC, NCO IC, NCO 2IC) assigned to a particular activity.
My current position is that I have three main roles I give to NCOs and they are rank based:
- Section Commander (Snr Cdt - Cpl)
- Flight Commander (Cpl - Sgt)
- Senior Cadet (FS - CWO)
Rank depends on maturity/experience of NCOs. The number of Sect/Flt Cdrs I appoint are based on current sqn numbers. At my peak of 82 cadets my Flights were led by 3 x FSs as the rank suggests but I’ve not been at those numbers again for quite some time.
The activity leads are actually good roles to give those who want to complete Volunteer section of their D of E award.
(p.s. didn’t see the post dates on this resurrected thread until I finished writing so thought I’d continue to post this anyway)
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How big are the units i.e. section/flight/squadron?
Just out of interest, really. Ours (CCF with compulsory service for 1 year) works on
4 x flights - each has 10-11 new recruits (compulsory service), 1 x Cpl in charge, 2/3 x LCpls
1 x NCO 2i/c RAF section (i.e. sqn) - Sgt
1 x NCO i/c - FS
But I don’t usually allocate specific responsibilities except that sometimes I have an NCO i/c flight sim if that’s their thing and they are good at it (saves me a lot of work). But often they are one of the other roles too (currently it’s actually the FS!)
And of course sometimes an RAF section NCO is ‘head of corps’ i.e. of the entire CCF unit, in which case they would be a CWO.
Ideally I’d operate on a standard Section of 8; Cpl as Sect Cdr, Senior Cdt as 2IC and 6 cadets. Senior Cdts would be LCpls if I was allowed them (ATC rules). 3 Sections would then make up a Flight.
At the moment with building back up again post-covid, I’ve got 3 Flights with 2 Cpls and 10 cadets in each (one’s awkwardly got 11 cadets), so a section has 1 Cpl and 5-6 cadets in.
I lost ALL my 10 NCOs during Covid, so I just have the 6 new-ish Cpls to work with. I’ve made 3 of my adult WOs/SNCOs the Flight Cdrs temporarily until some are ready to move up to Sgt.
I still have 22 cadets in my waiting list for September and March intakes so im not bothered by numbers at the moment and the rank structure will have sorted itself out by then.
I’ve always world on the following for my flights
Cadets (12-15)
Corporal (2-3)
Sergeant (1-2)
Flight Sergeant (0-1)
So if you have a small flight it would be 1 Sergeant, 2 Corporals and 12 Cadets, or a big flight 1 FS, 2 Sergeants, 3 Corporals and 15 Cadets.
That’s then scaleable, so I usually aimed to run with 3 flights plus the recruit flight on top.
The recruit flight would have 1 permanent SNCO and 1 permanent JNCO with the other NCO’s being tasked to pitch in as required. (I only really ran 1 big recruitment a year and used to bring in around 30 Cadets at time with a second much smaller one in spring for around 10 cadets.