No, you’re not the only one.
Unless this is a well thought through plan to undermine Hamas by recognising the Fatah regime in the West Bank only, as a reward to Fatah for not being involved in the 7 October atrocities, it would effectively reward acts of terrorism.
The trouble is that this is already the case de jure - Fatah/PLO are the only internationally recognised administrators of the territories. I just can’t see what this statehood approach aims to achieve, let alone what it will actually accomplish.
Without going through the whole “must condemn terror attacks before making other points” issue, this is not an isolated problem.
It’s very easy to look at this broader issue in anll its complexity and see that the status quo isn’t working.
In Cyprus, you have old people who’ve never lived in a United Cyprus. The same mindset emerges. How can you expect people born into these circumstances to not despise the nation state they perceive to be oppressing them? Why should the be civil in the first place?
I’m not exactly sure what you’d expect when you isolate and corner a wounded animal, but no matter how many rules you apply to ensure good behaviour, you’re setting them up for a failure.
Israel’s delightful government are responsible for creating these conditions.
It’s a bit like not building homes for people or supporting with a cost of living crisis, then wondering why people sleep on the streets and start stealing food and warm clothing from people who don’t deserve to be stolen from.
Sure, we all agree that theft is wrong, but actually they’ve been manoeuvred into thinking that’s their only option for survival, or to change their fortunes.
Again, those terrorist acts were horrific, but it doesn’t take much of a leap of understanding to comprehend why they’d look at that course of action and see its merits.
The Israeli government could kneecap any need for this sort of thing overnight, but it is transparent they don’t want Palestinians to exist there.
It’s not acceptable to turn any debate on this matter into a Jewish existential crisis without looking at what they do to the Palestinian people. Racists will be racists, so the emphasis should be on actually removing reason to galvanise people. Like not breaking international law…
And if the problem is Hamas, that doesn’t explain continuing deaths in non-Hamas territory.
We would also accept that a government and its people are different.
Indiscriminately wracking up Russian civilian bodies would not be an acceptable course of action for Ukraine, despite what they’ve been through, and so what Israel is doing is clearly wrong.
And they’ve been warned as such, over and over.
Important, I think, to separate the concept of Palestine from Gaza.
Gaza isn’t Palestine. It’s a part of Palestine, that physically separate from the West Bank, is far smaller than the West Bank, and with a much smaller population, and it’s run by an entirely separate - and opposed to - a political movement to that which runs the West Bank.
I think the recognition thing isn’t great - because there isn’t a central state that governs the whole territory that’s responsible for what goes on there - but we have allowed Israel carte blanch on the security front while also allowing to do nothing whatsoever on the political front. Its been 25+ years since there’s been any drive within Israel for a any kind of political solution - and quite simply that hasn’t worked.
So, new plan. We force their hand. To what degree it works, or doesn’t I don’t know, but whatever has been happening for the last 25 years hasn’t been working either.
Personally I’ve lost patience with Israel. I recognise that they’re in a difficult position, but they’ve done nothing to make it better for decades. they talk of nothing but securing their interests, while expecting everyone else to forgo their interests and support Israel’s (or perhaps more accurately, the bunch of crooks and bigots who make up Netenyahus’ government…)
I see that Israel has withdrawn their Ambassadors from Ireland, Norway and Spain as a result of those countries recognising Palestine - well, sod them.
I very much look forward to UK foreign and defence policy not being framed around having to juggle our relationships with ME states with their relationships with Israel.
Israel withdrawing their diplomatic representation makes sense. It’s what the PRC threatened to do and is why no one formally recognises Taiwan as the Republic of China.
Yeh sure, it’s a diplomatic statement as old as time.
It is what it is, and arguably a sign of not being able to do much else if in isolation.
Israel’s national security minister storming into a mosque in Jerusalem with armed forces…
I mean this is what we’re dealing with.
What happens when you equip thugs with military might, a sense they can do no wrong, and then you defend them every chance you get and write a list of ways you can’t criticise them without being antisemitic.
There’s a clear right/left divide here too.
Those on the right should definitely ask “what if it was me on the other end of my decision?” more often. I feel like that would be a very good way to govern for all.
I’m wondering if this is the right thread to continue the discussion, but including the new actions in Lebanon over the past week or so?
The Israeli army chief has today stated that the air strikes and sabotage attacks that have taken place in Lebanon are to prepare for an upcoming ground invasion.
New thread title “Israel commits more atrocities in the name of self-defence”?
Well then. Iran could be about to make things very spicy.
Could but would they?
Iran’s strength has always been playing other players off against each other (e.g. Britain & Russian in the 19th century) & acting through proxies without directly getting their hands dirty.
They prefer (fittingly enough) background chess manoeuvres rather than direct confrontation.
Having said that if someone comes in hoovers up all your pawns you need to either retreat & consolidate or actively engage.
Oh & no ones really focusing on Gaza at the moment which allows the politics around that to die down a little especially as HAMAS will get less support as Iran tries to re-establish & bolster hezbollah
Missiles already in the air.
This is escalating rather quickly now 
BBC live stream showing iron dome kicking off in Tel Aviv now. Also just been a mass shooting in Tel Aviv too.
This is all not good 
And the Dominos thing is mad. Been proven true too 
Christ, BBC live showing many missiles hitting the ground. This is massive.
If Iran is hitting the ground, given Israel’s reactions to things lately we’re about to see a massive escalation.
Makes me glad to be in the Western Hemisphere!
Not to mention, anything that does get intercepted but isn’t completely destroyed will also come down, and while I know little about Israeli geography, I can’t imagine fragments won’t be coming down over Tel Aviv.
Yeah… and that worries me. What will their escalation be? (within the limits of Speculation)
Some even landed in the Jordanian capital, Amman.
I think it’s plausible to assess that some of Iran’s nuclear facilities have just seen their life expectancy shortened. However, I suspect Israel will be more likely to directly target the IRGC’s bases and facilities now.
