Is there any recommendation or regulation to prevent CI's teaching drill if so what?

That is directly from AP 818, although often subjected to local adaptations due to lack of space for the four paces.

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Which is why “having done the cadets” shouldn’t qualify you for anything when you return. Can’t even be trusted to remember what I actually did :sweat_smile:

So why do you march 4 paces after falling out?

In my mind, it’s so much crisper to fall out and then not do anything, than fall out and start marching away, only to then have it clumsily dissipate from there.

If it’s for when you’re on a parade ground, just say “if on a parade ground, march straight until reaching the edge after falling out.”

On the other side of the coin… I’ve always thought it utterly bizarre when I encounter a unit who have adopted the old ‘incline and then do nothing’ cadetism.

I’ve fallen you out… Don’t just stand there… Get on and do the stuff… That’s why I have fallen you out. If I wanted you to stand there, you’d still be on parade.

I get it in confined parade halls, where to march off results in the commander pinned against the wall. Let them get out of the way first and then just break off. But when that practice carries on outside or in large halls… Just odd.

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I maintain it’s not as weird as if the thing they need to do is 180 degrees off the way they just walked for 4 paces… :joy:

I have read through the comments and hear are my thoughts.

I was a cadet in the 70’s, the drill I was taught has completely changed many times over. The drill I was taught though period correct, if they did a remake of get some in, is no longer relevant in the cadets and if taught that way would be harmful. Even the commands were different.

At that time and for many years after, CIs were not permitted to teach or take drill it was in several documents including ACP42.

One reason for this we were told was the person teaching or taking drill should be in full uniform including head gear.

Another important reason was as part of the uniform training at RAF Newton now RAF Cranwell there is a drill element in an attempt to standardise drill throughout the core though much less for officers as it was NCOs expected to do the bulk of this training at squadron level. Something most of us at the time, thought a laudable ambition from HQAC.

This was one of the main reasons argued for the introduction of Adult Sergeants and Flight Sergeants a few years ago, to increase the numbers of uniform staff, with some training in things like drill e.t.c.

At the time CI training was basic if at all.

This opens several questions:

If on top of all the other things, Cis are now to be allowed to teach or take drill, where is the difference between Cis and uniform staff and why is there such a huge difference in the way Cis are treated with respect to uniform staff? i.e., Pay, recognition (medals), ID, e.t.c.

Also are Cis to be offered retraining in Drill to standardise drill throughout the core or has HQAC abandoned this ambition before they start teaching / taking drill. Surely something HQAC now need to consider?

If we need to rely on Cis for things like this that should be the bread and butter for uniform staff is the Adult uniform staff structure failing, while using Cis as bandages to cover up cracks in the structure.

I will await your comments with anticipation.

Has the CI recently left cadet service?

I usually find if the unit has no suitable uniformed staff that the Cadet SNCOs will be teaching drill. If one of those has moved on to be a CI and is the best person for guiding the Cadets to improve their drill then so be it.

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As a WWO/Arms DI etc, ive adopted the approach of aslong as its being taught correctly and to the required standard, I honestly dont mind whos teaching it.

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It’s not safety critical so just crack on and teach it?

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Commitment?

Uniform staff agree to volunteer for a minimum number of hours, CIs do not.

Personally, I’m all for empowering CIs to teach what they can, be that foot drill, banner drill, uniform prep, etc, as long as it’s taught in line with AP818. The days of CIs teach academic lessons, NCOs do drill, Officers do paperwork are long gone.

We’ll, the drill AP is online, which means that anyone who wants to, can read it, and learn/relearn commands, manoeuvres etc. Just because your uniformed staff have at one time spent a few days at Cranwell, doesn’t mean they are personally updated on every change. I mean, when I went through Cranwell, about turns were still T-L-V!

As @AlexCorbin says If you have a CI who has read the AP, and can instruct to the required standard, then let them crack on.

So, seeing as cadets can now become DIs (which is awesome as far as I’m concerned!) I guess this means if they become a CI when they age out they can carry on teaching drill, including with their pace stick?

They’ll certainly be more qualified than most uniformed staff at that point!

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Aw man, even the CIs can carry them now?

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But only when wearing a blazer & bowler hat……

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Do they need an Orange sash?

Don’t like to be that person however drill is probably one of the most safety conscious activities performed regularly. Most Squadrons will do drill at least once a week usually at least 1/4 of the weekly time on Squadron is drill related. You have first/final parades too on top of that, that have a basic drill element too them.

You have 2 parts, risk wise you have the Hot and Cold climatic injuries. Slips, trips etc. The whole about-turn on the march movement was changed in the Drill regs due to knee twists risks. When I was a cadet it was taught as T L V Off before that changed and changed again. Definitely safety critical and you need to have someone who understands the demands of drill

Personally if it can’t be a adult SNCO as not all Sqn’s have them, any officer should be able to teach foot drill to a basic standard at least. The cadet NCO’s should definitely be able to teach it and Wing Warrant Officers should be requested to fill in the gaps where needed.

The only time a CI should ever get involved in drill in my opinion is from a Health and Safety point of view that could be 1st aid or RA’s etc. Realistically if you are a CI and you enjoy teaching drill why aren’t you a SNCO?

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Because they have had to start CFAV service as CIs?

Which isn’t policy, but we all know that’s a different topic.

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Maybe personal time constraints doesn’t allow uniformed commitment.

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As a CI there isn’t any form of drill training, totally get your point on uniformed commitment. Could there be more flexibility? It would be interesting to know survey wise from CI’s why they don’t wish to go into uniform. If that is the main factor, having a CI attending 1 night a week or twice a month to teach drill after being on a Wing course/Assessed by WWO at their Squadron could be better than not having anything in place

Some do yeah agreed there. But if starting as a CI means you either have been out of the organisation for a while or have no experience. I get there will be exceptions with ex-regulars etc however unless they are shadowing an instructor, I personally can’t see how a regular say parent of a cadet could pick it up from looking at a book/youtube without some form of guidance.