Is there a problem with respect and general attitude? Is that a direct link to the age in which cadets can join and the staff being too laid back?

Cadets The Crew Room
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Background:

I joined the ATC in 2015 , September I believe was my first month. At the time our squadron had possibly one of the best bands in Manchester. Not an exaggeration some people may know exactly what squadron this is… However, about 6 months after I joined things started to go downhill. As SNCOs aged out and other cadets/JNCOs left the squadrons discipline and respect started to drop… I think at one point our highest ranking cadets were Sergeants who rarely ever turned up… Every intake we would easily get 15-20 new cadets which in number terms was very good… but that, I believe is that SQNs biggest issue.

So after they joined they were straight away put into classrooms where a now Plt Officer went through their first class booklets GIVING OUT the answers as a hand out to give them a reason to stay at the squadron and not leave. Many of the cadets joined because of flying and when they joined the squadron and quickly realised 90% of the welcome meeting is a lie they started to not like cadets. The issue then arose that our CO believed Numbers meant the squadron was better. We had 60 odd cadets on the books at one point 45 of which being under 14, of which only 20 turned up. Of them 20 10 may have wanted to be there and the other 10 were forced into coming. They disrespected the NCOs, the NCOs didnt help themselves though. and the Staff basically shrugged it off or just told everyone to buck up…

It come to a point where on one of the most recent WTDs we didnt even come top 10 in the squadron rankings… Our band became more of a three man piece with 5 other people just aimlessly hitting a drum because they couldnt be bothered learning the music. at this point we had 1 CWO 2 FS (one of which went from Corporal to FS in under 4 months after a double promotion and then up to CWO in 1 months) 4 sargeants and 8 corporals. when anyone stood out of line and the NCOs tried to deal with it they were given backchat and disrespect. the staff wouldnt help because they were “too busy”. Corporals and sergeants were regularly walking into the office throwing their tapes in the drawer and dictating they were leaving then begging for their rank back, and getting it back… oh and to top it off on the annual christmas dinner in front of 2 ex wing commanders the current wing commander and members of the civcom 3 NCOs including 2 SNCOs all under 18 was high and drunk… yet one was promoted two weeks after despite being talked to by the CO in direct relation to this…

at this point about 80% of the original people at the SQN when I joined had left with a further 10% ageing out… The squadron was as a staff member put it “A youth club parents send their kids so they can have 6 hours of quiet a week”… in some respects staff didnt help themselves. they saw it that these young cadets from 13-15 would “grow out of it” which they never did. Because of this the staff never brought parents in to try and deal with the problems and because of that the cadets run the show. not the people put in place to do so.

For me, the tipping point was on a Annual inspection from the Wing Commander and his staff. at this point the double promo sergeant was a CWO… A CWO from another squadron and an adult sergeant came down with the wing commander and whilst the wing commander had a nice cosy brew with the CO, it was the CWO who ended up facing the honest truth about this squadron… whilst he literally rinsed each cadet over one thing or another, be it: Uniform, Respect, stepping out of line, back chat, messing on parade, going on phone on finals. Our CWOs stood there on their phones themselves talking and laughing. Upon leaving I raised my concerns with the CO to explain the situation and why people are unhappy. the reply I got: What can I do?.. yep that was the COs actual response…

Im now at a different SQN and it is 10x better. the cadets have more respect… even the younger ones and it seems everyone knows their place and who is in charge. I thought i’d put my story out there seen as most people are scared of having repercussions brought against them for speaking out.

Whats everyones thoughts and experiences in regards to this and do people think the minimum age in which cadets can join the RAFAC is too low?

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Tricky one this and if i’m honest the responsibility lies with the staff.

Personally, I’d rather have 20 cadets that turn up every night, conform to standards and are respectful than have 60 that aren’t.

If the Sqn staff are burying their heads in the sand then let them do so. The Squadron will soon implode and be reduced to nothing.

I’m not sure which Sqn you are talking about (being and ex East Lancs Wing Cdt I have a small idea) but you will find that Squadron numbers fluctuate throughout the year as young people move to university or move on in general. Its should be down to the ASNCO’s and CWO to ensure that there are cadets ready to step into the vacancies. Those not ready should not be put into post just for the sake of it.

A CWO post is the epitome of the Cadet rank structure and should be given out only to those who deserve it. A CWO MUST be a person who more junior cadets can turn to for guidance if needed. They must be experienced in most if not all fields and be able to communicate with cadets and staff as well as ensure discipline in maintained. They would be my first port of call if it was all falling apart along with the ASNCO.

With regards to your final question, its a tricky one. I can see why the age limit has been dropped but this should not impact the squadron too much. If probationer cadets are told from the start that there are rules to conform to and if you don’t conform there may be repercussions, then there shouldn’t be an issue.

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The “behaviour” of young cadets has never been any different. I think in my day we were a bit more ‘practical’ in our mischief making and not just noisy and childish.
It is interesting that the behaviour you don’t like is not evident at the other sqn, therefore age has no bearing.

As for the other points it’s the real world.
There is an unrealistic expectation among many that AIr Cadets should be quiet, obedient and respect everyone, how dull would that be. Underage drinking like many other things like this go on and yes Air Cadets can and will do them, the drinking seems to have stopped over the years, but other things no.

Cadets leave squadrons and things take time to readjust. While you’d hope that staff are on top of it, it depends how it happens and which age group(s) it happens with. Lose all the older ones, to be expected so you get on with it; ones in the middle more problematic as your succession thoughts disappear; youngest ones it happens as the ATC is not for them or the hype doesn’t match expectations.

For those of us with a few years under our belt, size doesn’t matter. There is a lot cliqueyness on larger squadrons, which causes its own problems. Like Scrounger I’d sooner have a small squadron than a large one, especially as the way the Corps is now, you are probably better able to meet their expectations. Percentage allocations may look the same, but on a big squadron more people miss out. On a large squadron the opportunities have to be spread thinner and or less often. For instance we use an indoor climbing wall and they have a limit as to how many they can take. We go every 8-12 weeks and all those that want to, go, where as another squadron local to us has to limit their numbers.

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The fact that at your new place everything is working the way it’s supposed to shows you that the system does work, it’s just fallen down at the old place.

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I feel sorry for you