Interesting times - potentially


#1

I see Nicola Sturgeon is promising that she will be looking to help the rest of the UK. What a load of BS. If that’s what she wanted why on earth is in the SNP?

Listening to the wash ups and reading about the various TV debates there have to be real concerns about the potential political landscape after 7th May and the ensuing 5 years, if we don’t get a Conservative led govt.
It would appear there is a clutch of left leaning parties namely the SNP, Plaid Cymru and The Greens who say they will do anything to keep The Conservatives out of Downing Street. This of ourse is depends on what happens with the Limp Dems
While I think it’s pretty obvious that we will once again have a coalition govt, if it is a Labour led govt propped up by a gaggle of effectively self-serving leftist single interest parties, I dread to think what the country will look like in 5 years time, as any policies will have to get approved by what in effect will be a committee formed of any parties propping Labour up all wanting something for themselves. We’ve had that to some extent for the last 5.
If we get a Conservative led govt I want to see the West Lothian question put to bed once and for all and any Scottish MPs of any colour in Westminster banned from voting on anything that doesn’t apply to Scotland.
I just hope that people who do vote, don’t vote tactically as we ended up with Blair after everyone did that in ’97.

The minority parties rattle on about anti austerity and seem to think they can buy the UK’s way out by taxing the so called rich in as many way as possible and as a result spend the UK out of financial problems. You have to wonder about how these people run their own households? If you haven’t got the money to spend you can’t spend it and if you want money to spend you have to borrow it from whoever will give it to you. The latter is not a good option unless you know you can pay it back. It’s not been an easy 5 years but I do feel we are in a better place, than had we had another 5 years of socialist govt…

It is annoying but true to form that the BBC only ever seems to support the notion of a socialist led govt. Whenever they get to play with their latest set of toys, there hasn’t, as I’ve seen, anything about a conservative led govt.


#2

Conservative/Labour coalition to keep everyone else out. You heard it here first.


#3

nope, seen it mooted quite a bit.

financially they aren’t a million miles apart, in defence/foreign policy they are two peas in a pod, and Labour - for all their talk of being able to deal with the SNP in a minority government - understand how toxic doing a deal with the SNP that sees increased spending in Scotland financed by increased taxes and reduced spening in England would be.

together they’d have 520-540 seats, meaning each party could have perhaps 80+ awkward squad members or headbanging loons and still get its programme through. it would be a much, much easier situation to manage than having a majority of a handful where every single MP can indulge in a bit of pork-barrel or political blackmail.


#4

The whole thing is a load of crap. The system is broken, outdated and corrupt.

Will it ever change? Will it chuff.

Are these people actually any different from each other? Are they chuff.

The whole independence thing ripped families and friends apart I have seen absolute horrendous abuse, violence, criminal damage and intimidation to anyone who dared vote No.

Will I be voting in this years General Election? No.

Have I ever voted? No because it wouldnt make a difference.

Will spoiling my ballot paper make a difference? No.

Why cant we have an option “None of the Above”.

The whole system is flawed abd corrupt. We can send information round the world in seconds.
Yet we still need a room full of toff pretentious spineless creatures arguing like school children. All scared of losing votes rather than doing whats right and whats needed. Thinking more about lining their pockets.

It can take years to get things taken seriously in Parliment and see change, yet it took 6 months to draw up, debate and implent taxes when they realised they were losing money through people vaping rather than smoking.

The sooner I can go live in a log cabin with my guns and my dogs in the Mountains the better.


#5

I’m pretty much with Scrinson on this issue!


#6

why not?


#7

[quote=“steve679” post=24595][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=24593]
Will spoiling my ballot paper make a difference? No.
[/quote]why not?[/quote]

It doesn’t differentiate the individual from the many imbeciles who can’t figure out how a simple ballot paper works.

Unless there is a separate count of those who turn out but refuse to choose one of the offered options (by selecting a “none of the above” box) the scale of disaffection cannot properly be ascertained.


#8

[quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=24593]The whole thing is a load of crap. The system is broken, outdated and corrupt.

Will it ever change? Will it chuff.

Are these people actually any different from each other? Are they chuff.

The whole independence thing ripped families and friends apart I have seen absolute horrendous abuse, violence, criminal damage and intimidation to anyone who dared vote No.

Will I be voting in this years General Election? No.

Have I ever voted? No because it wouldnt make a difference.

Will spoiling my ballot paper make a difference? No.

Why cant we have an option “None of the Above”.

The whole system is flawed abd corrupt. We can send information round the world in seconds.
Yet we still need a room full of toff pretentious spineless creatures arguing like school children. All scared of losing votes rather than doing whats right and whats needed. Thinking more about lining their pockets.

It can take years to get things taken seriously in Parliment and see change, yet it took 6 months to draw up, debate and implent taxes when they realised they were losing money through people vaping rather than smoking.

The sooner I can go live in a log cabin with my guns and my dogs in the Mountains the better.[/quote]What’s the alternative?


#9

[quote=“incubus” post=24596][quote=“steve679” post=24595][quote=“RearAdmiralScrinson” post=24593]
Will spoiling my ballot paper make a difference? No.
[/quote]why not?[/quote]

It doesn’t differentiate the individual from the many imbeciles who can’t figure out how a simple ballot paper works.

Unless there is a separate count of those who turn out but refuse to choose one of the offered options (by selecting a “none of the above” box) the scale of disaffection cannot properly be ascertained.[/quote]

ah yes…with you now.

i agree a “none of the above” box would be more telling on the public view


#10

I love the people who have this idea of “none of the above” as ballot paper option, because they don’t invariably know who, in terms of political leaning or person they would vote for. The idea that it would send a message or similar to the corridors of power is a nonsense, because someone would ask the question who or what do you want and still people wouldn’t be happy, you would end up back as we are now. I vote on the basis of I know what I don’t want. I don’t vote on the basis of whether I like an individual at local or national level (because I don’t know them well enough to have that view), or which group is promising to do the most at that point, which I know some do and baffles me.

The option we could go for is absolute monarchy, which then removes the need for anyone to vote.

So the question is if you have a none of the above, when you consider there are normally 7 or 8 to choose from if you add in the likes of the “fags on prescription party” or similar people with more money than sense, why not at least one of them. Spoiling a ballot paper is pointless and indicative of someone with too much time on their hands. It’s like going to the pub, buying a pint and then doing something to make it so you can’t drink it. The upshot is no one cares if you spoil a ballot paper.


#11

Putting a “none” box is a very simple solution which cost nothing but which could increase voter turn-out and give a clear indication of just how many people are unsatisfied with the options on the paper.

It is no more or less a wasted vote than lumping for one of the other no-hopers, none of whom are likely to have a set of policies that match the specific desires of an individual voter.

One of the main problems as far as I am concerned is the entire party political system, where each party produces a sheaf of policies written in an attempt to get as much support (within a broad political leaning) as possible. Most manifestos published by parties have at least one “red line” which scrubs them from the list of parties I would choose to vote for, and that is before I concern myself with trying to actually prevent somebody dangerous from getting into power.

If you vote for a politician they have an unnerving tendency to take this to mean that you like them, trust them and want them to run the country for you. They also take it to mean that you have given them a mandate to do everything they said they wanted to do - even the stupid things. voting for the “best of a bad bunch” will always lead to bad policies.

I’ve come to believe that having a majority government is a bad thing, while having a system of political parties means that the parties draw battle lines in the sand and lead people to deal and manoeuvre based on those inflexible lines. Lets not even talk about party whips! Politicians should be free (and expected) to represent their constituents, whoever those constituents voted for.

More reasonable policies are created when people of varying opinions have to work together to develop them and where party leaders don’t get to impose their desires on the process - a similar argument is used in support of a bicameral parliament. I do believe that the coalition has been a good thing for the country; at east, better than flopping between diametrically opposed parties sworn to undo everything done in the previous parliament - that is the pattern (or at least the stated intent) I’d watched over the previous decades and it means that there is no stability and no chance for many processes to come to fruition.

But what of the processes that need to be stopped? What of the government that is dangerously out of control? The common “wisdom” has been that a government gets to suck for 5 years or so then get replaced by another one at the next general election. This ties into the idea of a “mandate to govern” and isn’t good enough - very often, 5 years is too long and irreparable damage may already have been done. This is why I support the idea of voting for policies rather than parties. We need to figure out a way to move to a system whereby the people have more of a direct say in the individual policies that will be carried forward by the government. of the day. We also need to have resilient mechanisms for intervening where the government of the day is leading us astray, ideally through a robust, non-party House of Lords and, in extremis, by petition to the Monarch.

The ancient supremacy of the Monarchy has abated and we are in an era where Parliament has primacy.
It is time for the next stage, where parliament become subservient to the will of the People.

Vox Populi, Vox Dei


#12

nope, seen it mooted quite a bit.

financially they aren’t a million miles apart, in defence/foreign policy they are two peas in a pod, and Labour - for all their talk of being able to deal with the SNP in a minority government - understand how toxic doing a deal with the SNP that sees increased spending in Scotland financed by increased taxes and reduced spening in England would be.

together they’d have 520-540 seats, meaning each party could have perhaps 80+ awkward squad members or headbanging loons and still get its programme through. it would be a much, much easier situation to manage than having a majority of a handful where every single MP can indulge in a bit of pork-barrel or political blackmail.[/quote]

It will happen in our lifetime.


#13

Interesting reading. I am from North of Hadrians Wall and I’m going to stick my head above the parapet (with a high chance of an injury) and ramble a bit.
I find it interesting that in elections gone by Labour has relied on their Scottish MP’s to form a workable majority. At no point did anyone question the “Power of Scotland” which in effect it did.
I am not an SNP supporter and must admit I am confused by the number of my countrymen who do not support Independence but vote SNP in elections as they have done a pretty good job looking adter Scotland for the populus, not there own supporter as is the case with Labour and Conservatives.
Now as far as English only for English matters makes perfect sense…in a Devolved English Assembly/Parliament. That would leave a (smaller) UK Parliament to manage national affairs (Foriegn, Defence, Border etc). That surely would resolve The West Lothian Question.
And finally, no matter where your natural party of choice is vote. Maybe won’t change your MP but will be counted and imagine the problems if Party A plus Party Y form a givernment on MP numbersbut got LESS votes than Party B plus …


#14

MattB there are a lot smarter people out there than me that could easily implement a simpler system. But big business pays to keep it the complicated, corrupt, outdated and stupid system we have now.

Get rid of those bloody house of lords for a start. And the bloody EU.

Gear it towards science and advancement of society and the human race. Not held back by religion and outdated bickering.

We have internet banking apps. Why not apps for voting or checking policies?

Why have parties sat to the left or right. Central and pick whats best for the country and the people. And have a true democratic representation. Rather than just the illusion of it.

Wll these politicans do is go through the motions. They dont care about anyone but themselves.

People have no faith in politics because they are all spineless, disgusting, pathetic, greedy oxygen theiving creatures who care about nothing but their own skin and lining their pockets, sending good men and women to their deaths for some equally pathetic reason.

Someone up my way a few years ago was arrested for fraud, for putting forward a shop manikin as a runner for local council. Just sums it up really.

The only people I despise more than politicians are bankers. I would get an incredible sense of joy to watch them all suffer.

The whole system is corrupt, wrong and a complete bag of excrement.

May I direct you to the Icelandic system. Funny how thats hardly made the news…

I would rather use my ballot paper as toilet roll then vote for any of these idiotic people.

It will never change. Theres too much money and big bussinesses involved.


#15

The sway held by Westminster MPs in Scottish constituencies has been known about for sometime and this particularly why Labour would never show any support for the English only votes, they know that they would struggle to oppose anything, without relying on others. If I recall the majority of socialist constituencies in Scotland are concentrated in the industrial centres and generally more numerous and smaller than those traditionally returning Conservative or LD. Which is similar to England. Get into the old industrial and coal areas in England, there are a higher number of traditionally socialist constituencies.
If it went down the English Parliament route then it’s unlikely that Labour would ever get to be in the majority, given they have relied so heavily on returns to Westminster from Scotland and to a lesser degree Wales. This where the SNP and to some extent Plaid Cymru now see their opportunity to get into the limelight, but when you listen to either they only have a narrow viewpoint, ie what’s best for Scotland and Wales. Which I don’t actually care about being an Englishman) and not the broader picture. Resolve the West Lothian question and remove their ability to vote on everything and the SNP’s position would be lessened.
As for what we now call the West Lothian question was IIRC correctly from a progamme I watched was first raised when home rule for the Irish was raised in the 1800s, in relation to Irish MPs not voting on English only matters.

I’m not because as it stands they get the best of both worlds. It is easy to please a relatively small population base with the highest proportion living in a strip either side of the Clyde and Forth. I imagine some Scots in the more remote areas feel less well represented.
Currently there is a handout in the way of the Barnett formula which if independence was gained would be lost and as we saw recently, oil isn’t a guaranteed income, one bloke I know who works on the N Sea rigs was and still is quite concerned. Given the service industry that no doubt relies on oil workers spending their money, it is a fragile existence. So vote SNP but not inpendence, not really a surprise.


#16

Working in the oil myself. It is incredibly worrying times. A lot of people sacked and jobs lost.

Doesnt look set to change anytime soon. The Northsea is an incredibly expensive place to produce though. But even easier places like Africs are closing down or stopping exploration.

We should have copied the Norwegians. And every new build (no matter how crap it is) should be made with solar panels. We need to sort out this renewable power.


#17

Not as interesting as it could have been in the end. Thankfully.
It does really highlight how much Labour relies/relied on Scotland, but the SNP may have shown Scotland roaring as per Salmond but all a bit toothless, as they can’t piggy-back Labour and they don’t have any ‘control’ over the Conservatives. It would make me smile if the Conservatives voted to end Scottish based MPs voting on Englsih only matters and to give Scotland full fiscal control and remove the Barnett handout.
Labour now have to reengage with English voters (they are 113 behind the Conservatives in England) and stop banging on about the working man. I’m a working man and you would need to pay me a 20 week Euromillions lottery rollover to make me even start to think, Labour were a sensible option at the ballot box.


#18

It hardly roared. It meowed in an annoyed tone.

Far too many people bought into their lies and manipulation. And as far as I am aware. Only 35% of the Electorate voted SNP. So much for first past the post. If your not from Scotland the SNP are just angry english hating Labour with a different colour and name. “aye but its for Scotland ken” Socialism just doesnt work!

Give me proportional representation.

(35%) 1.3 Million voted SNP…56 seats.
3.5 Million voted UKIP…1seat. Think it would work out at 83 seats?

All these politicians standing down, just teaches us that if you dont get your own way or you fail then you throw the towel in…

The whole system is flawed. But I am glad Tories are back in. Lets see what they can do. Glad the Lib Dems and Labour are destroyed.

And that absolute joke of a party “Respect” lost their only seat in Bradford. George Galloway please remove yourself from the gene pool you absolute toilet.

Still want to go live in a log cabin in the mountains with my dogs and guns. I resent this country.and paying my taxes as it is.


#19

Emigrate then? Simple.


#20

Emigrate then? Simple.[/quote]

I plan too. I have had enough of this country and being defecated on from a great height.

But why should I be forced to move because of an illusion of democracy in a broken system?
Why cant they fix the problem?

People are fighting and dying to have a fraction of the freedom we have and we sit on our high horse like our democracy is this perfect system when the reality is we are just clouded by flawed, broken, outdated and corrupt system built and maintained by lies and manipulation.

We can land a spacecraft on a comet at a monumental distance away yet we still have our petty issues bickered over by grown men acting like children. Then to have it ruined and ripped apart by a group of unelected rich toff toilets.

Aye democracy eh?

This country is beyond a joke.