Initial Weapons Training

Everyone Shooting and Marksmanship
1

When I became a member of staff at my current squadron, the task I was set was to get them shooting, the squadron had 3 L98A2 training cadets, and a handful of Number 8 trained. By the end of next month I will have completed my SAAI course & RMQ (SR) which will allow me to provide the full experience of shooting to the cadets, by training them and then providing them with the opportunity to live fire. So I have removed the problem of not having any staff qualified.

The next problem I have is physically providing the training to the cadets, considering out of a squadron of 40, of whom 30 will regularly parade, and having around 10 cadets trained on anything, it gives me 20 cadets to train on the Number 8 & and 25 to train on the L98A2. Which is a hefty number to get trained, but something that could be achieved to a high percentage within the next 18 months. Unfortunately I have no access to weapons on the squadron, nor an armoury in which to store any that I could transfer from other units. This leaves me relying on other units to provide me with weapons to conduct training along with a location, this invariably requires a member of their staff to give up a day/weekend depending on the weapon.

If out of good will I will also train some of their cadets during this time it makes it better for them, as their squadron also benefits from their time, but this reduces the number I can train from my squadron, which is may main aim at the present time.

So what I want to know is the following:

How often do you provide IWT opportunities for your cadets on all 3 weapons?

How do you run your IWT, parade nights/Weekends/Range Days?

How soon do newly trained cadets get a confirmation shoot?

How much support do you get for IWT Courses from your own squadron staff/other squadron’s staff, qualified or otherwise?

Have you interacted with other local cadet forces who may have access to weapons and run joint courses, if so how has this worked out?

Any other general comments :slight_smile:

2

I am intrested to see how this works out for you as we have no one on sqn that is weapons trained (we have someone that is trying to sort this out)

We also have no storeage for weapons as we are based on a junior school grounds and the closest armory to us is 30 miles away.

I would love to get the cadets out shooting its such a pain in the bum with everything else going on not to mention work and all that boring stuff getting in the way it really is a shame

3

this was very much the trouble for us at our Sqn, i was desperate to get qualified as a WI as we had two RCOs but no method to train through the Sqn.

last year i gained my SAAI with a selection of others in the Wing and have since devised a weekend program to allow us to use our recently gained qualification.

we use a local Sqn with an armoury and range, which in itself makes it self-sufficient, however they appreciate this is not the case for all and so open its doors to those either with no platform to offer training/shooting or can provide qualified staff/weapons to assist with the day.

so to answer your questions
How often do you provide IWT opportunities for your cadets on all 3 weapons?
never! the L81 i have only ever seen trained at Wing shooting, although there is no reason it cant be done locally, we are currently weary of training Cadets in a weapon system they wont get chance to use before their WHT/RHT expires (ie no platform to fire the L81 at this time…)

as for No8/L98 we run a weekend once a month biasing the training as per the requirement/Cadet interest

How do you run your IWT, parade nights/Weekends/Range Days?

our IWT is run with the level of interest in mind.
if we have significant numbers for one weapon over the other we bias the weekend that way and that training takes the bigger room (hall), while the second system has a smaller group in a side classroom
No8 training is conduted by one SAAI/WI as it is a simple enough training package
L98A2 is shared between two SAAI/WI to offer an adequate break between what can be intense lessons.
while the training is going on No8 LF is occuring for those who arrived qualifed at the Sqn range and allows for each No8 trainee upon passing their WHT to get their first 5-10 rounds down the range in the same day.

L98A2 LF is conducted every three months, thus giving opportunity twice every 6 month period for qualifeid Cadets to get at leats one chance to get on range and “empty a magazine” before their WHT expires!

How soon do newly trained cadets get a confirmation shoot?
with our training occuring on a Sqn with range in use the last few details and rounds are reserved for those Cadets who have passed thier WHTs moments earlier.

How much support do you get for IWT Courses from your own squadron staff/other squadron’s staff, qualified or otherwise?

as you can tell an excessive amount.
these weekends started as single days for three Sqns and since built to a full two day weekend with 9 or more Sqns invited to attend.
we have weapons provided by 3-4 Sqns, qualified Staff by 4-5 Squadrons all working together to ensure that our Cadets get the opportunity. weapons obviously need to be transported via the correct means and so cooperation is needed to either do this prior to the weekend (often not a parade night) or RV at Sqns armouries and travel on to the hosting Sqn on the day.

Have you interacted with other local cadet forces who may have access to weapons and run joint courses, if so how has this worked out?
no.

this may sound like a big step but started at very humble beginings.
speaking to a local Sqn with a range, staff and weapons a single day was put together, a few months later it was repeated. three staff from two Sqns then gained SAAI with one also RCO and increased our capacity for training and availability for LF. and started running more often until it naturally grew as the interest and need from local Sqns became clear.

4

i would add, although you’re right ot aim at training all the Cadets it will be a pointless aim. simply because not all will be interested so dont try to set up a program to train them all.
aim for 50% and you can then judge if there is adequate interest to continue the effort at the same speed.

i have found (with the above mentioned weekends) that interest has reduced, after the initial serge because of the lack of previous opportunities it is now mainly those left who have little/no interest in shooting to get trained
not all Cadets go on camps, not all enjoy AT or even flying and it is the same with shooting.

in terms of getting started approach a local Sqn who are “self-sufficient” (staff and weapons) and inquire if they woudl be willing to offer joint training…i would be surprised if they said no

5

Thanks Steve, I will get in touch with out ‘local’ units and try to organise something similar to the above.

What are people’s experiences of drawing weapons from a service armoury and gaining access to training facilities on station?

6

Depends on the armoury.

7

We have been lucky as we had an RCO an wi on the squadron, so I became drawn in, now I am Saai and Sr RCO and am qualified on all 4 LF weapons, the trend locally has been to set up air rifle ranges but I have enough on my hands,

Cadets are trained on the no8 as part of their initial training, we try to get them to do a confirmation shoot on the Sqn indoor range within a cpl of weeks,

L98 I find that it is best to train only 6 at a time per instructor and you need to really do it over a weekend, so we try to fit them in when we have suitable aged and competent cadets and I have also trained some local Sqn cadets too. We have 7 of the 103,s on site so we are lucky with that.

At present the wing are running monthly shoots so we try to get the cadets that are qualified to them as much as possible

This year I have been doing concurrent training at the wing shoots on the L 81 so as to give the cadets more exposure and then they get to do 5 rind confirmation at 25 mtrs, we have had trouble with LR dates but I am hoping that the one in June go ahead so they an all get an opportunity of shooting at long range.

By doing the training where the armoury is it saves some of the headaches with personnel

I have not trained any cadets on the L 86 yet be are hoping to start that next month if we can get it organised. Again we hope to do it with out the need of transporting the weapons

It’s time consuming and frustrating at times but it can be done

8

I don’t think that the initial training is the real issue wrt shooting, it’s the almost constant round of WHT’s.
I think this is one area where a link with local ACF could be beneficial, given that as I understand it, all CFAV weapons qualifications for general shooting and training are the same. Well not unless the ACO have invented their own set of rules.