Wish we had viable DTE near us for running residential courses.
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Rather than worry about DTEs as they can be chopped at a momentās notice, look for alternatives. May not be as cheap, but more likely to be local and if it gives the desired effect ā¦?
Weāve had wing camps binned at the last minute as the āMoDā has wanted the DTE. I have suggested looking for alternatives but it always seems to be a cost thing, but cost vs inconvenience of being told no at the last minute. I get the impression staff are more into the waltzing around in ācombatsā and playing soldier for the weekend/week.
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Yes I agree! We have lovely big hall. But we are not allowed to stay overnight in it.
Thatās all good and well.
But what alternative to DTE is there to running a residential course.
What can be rented which provides the same.
Without forking out a stupid figure.
Also. Has nothing to do with walting. Itās all about the topic of this thread which is providing training for 1st class. In this case residentially.
No idea where the walting part came in. 
Have you looked into a Regional Activities Centre.
We use one for courses. Allows the cadets the experience of a camp, eating in the mess extra, but is far enough away from the main activities on the bases, to be excluded from Walting about in uniform 
Plenty of Scout and Girl Guide camps around they generally have accommodation and classrooms at a decent rate.
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Agree with this - build it into the camp cost and it works out relatively reasonable. We are too conditioned into offering a weekends training for free / small amounts.
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Preach!
We can quite easily charge more to deliver more and still be reasonable.
Seems like some staff would rather not provide any activities than charge more than a fiver.
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No havenāt thought about them. As tbh they are about 100miles away from us one way.
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We travel that far for our one.
Not only Scout sites, but also outdoor activity centres where you can dip into the activities they provide, which makes it a bit more interesting. One of our local scout sites has activities with instructors that can be paid for.
If we are just talking 1st class it will be a weekend at most and given our nearest DTE is 1Ā½-2 hours each way, thatās too much, given we all need to get up for work and the cadets school.
My allision to āwaltingā comes from experience of answers when alternatives are suggested.
confess Iāve seen the opposite trick work too - bitesize it in between other bits so thereās not too much sitting down (esp. at present!) at onceā¦ am about to form our Sqdn up into a āvirtual aircraftā (who gets to be the rudder?) and send us wheeling round the hall/yardā¦ followed by ye olde yaw/pitch test qs!
Wow Iām impressed that squadrons can offer weekends etc, that is really good stuff. We run first class just on parade nights, but we have a smaller squadron and a small staff team.
Iād love to do a training weekend, but thereās just no way we could.
It takes us about three months to get through. And we just plod through it methodically throwing in as much practical as we can.
Once completed we then move through the blue PTSā¦ which takes a similar amount of time.
With a Sept intake this gives us lots of badges to award at the end of feb, and as we move out of the traditional winter indoor training syllabus cadets are well qualified to move onto the bronze and fun stuff through the summer.
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as a question why cant you do weekends?
I do lots of weekends with cadets already - on other activities.
If anything I already do too many weekends for cadets in a year.
It wouldnāt go down well at home if I suggested I do more, and honestly I donāt want to do more.
This is where our organisation is losing out. Take shooting for example:
To get a cadet trained on L98 it takes a whole staff team and cadets to be free for an entire weekendā¦ and thatās just for trainingā¦ before you even get on a shoot.
There are so few trained staff - as staff training takes out an awful lot of weekends, that hardly any cadets get to go shootingā¦.
There are some staff that can dedicate 25 weekends a year to cadets, and all power to them, but they are the exception, not the rule.
There are 104 weekend days a year per covid I spent on averageā¦
3 spent on parades
6 spent on fundraising
4 spent on skills weekends for bronze etc
6 spent driving cadets to activities such as flying/shooting/sports
4 supporting wing courses
2 on wing training weekend
Plus odd days off in the week as annual leave for holiday activities and a week on camp. And extra time administering my wing role.
Plus 2 nights a week.
I have other hobbies to do, and a home life with its emergencies, life events and gatherings.
I have no more time to give. And I donāt achieve as much as Iād like because everything seems to involve a weekend course to qualify for this or to deliver that.
I donāt have kids, how staff with families manage I do not know.
So I honestly have no time to throw in weekend of training for things like first class.
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it i hard to react fairly to your comments but i shall pick holes
who is saying it is you.
my current unit doesnāt hold a first class weekend but my previous two did. there would be the usual training on parade nights but there would be a ācatch upā weekend put together and chance to explore some of the more practical elements (drill) and include heartstart into it.
these were run by the āfirst class teamā - in both cases this was a enthusiast and experienced CI and Staff Cadet - they were the ārecruit flight training teamā working with training flight to get them through first class.
what do you class as a āwhole staff teamā?
IWT for the L98A2 can be completed with 1 Staff member, although the realistic minimum is two if only from a ā2 staff present on an eventā point of view.
three weekends if you include shooting.
2x for SAAI and 1x for RCO (unless RCO has changed?)
this might be a lot to commit to in one year on top of everything else, but once done is effectively ālife longā
so delegate it to someone else.
sounds like youāre already busy, and with a Wing role I am not sure why first class training should sit at your door.
As mentioned above in my experience it has been other ājuniorā Staff who have looked after first class training supported by Staff Cadetsā¦
RCO course depends on weapon type 
. IIRC air rifle is one weekend but L98 is two.
But why not limit shooting at squadron level to the air rifle. Most squadrons can fill in an indoor range, something that can if into parade nights or one additional night. Also a great addition to a training weekend
Too many people look too wide, especially when it comes to shooting; air rifle is the bedrock to learning shooting skills!
Weekend classification training is perfect for wing/sector level stuff too. I remember as a cadet our wing used to run 2/3 weekends a year where they would deliver a butt load of classification training at all levels. I think sometimes it was also run as a whole week during holidays. What this meant was that you could get staff in that really know the subject and enjoy teaching it. And they could also teach it to a much bigger group, therefore making their time worth more.
What this means is CFAV time is better spent. Rather than each squadron having a member of staff teach 5 cadets a subject, you have 1 member of staff teach the entire sector/wing. Also the quality of teaching is then normally higher too!
It also makes for a nice first camp opportunity for newer cadets!
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It is easy to get over stretched / pulled in too many directions.
Recognising you are giving as much time as you can is a good thing. I keep having to relearn that lesson.
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going off topic
yet something we have only seen in the last ten yearsā¦ 
i accept it can become a good bedrock to start from, but donāt see it as a saviour.
of the 8 units i have been on, only three have sufficient space for a air rifle range realistically. one would have (Spooner hut) but has since moved to a new building with no room long enough to accommodate a range.
one unit does have one and use it regular, and another has a 0.22 tube range and no room in the building. the other two wouldnāt have much chance.