Hi, As a Transport Manager ™ for a school operating 10 minibuses, I deal with the limitations of the Section 19 permits daily. Your last comment ref. funding is totally relevant especially in the reclaiming of operating costs / passenger fares. If I was a Sqn Cdr I would look at appointing a Sqn MTO and get them trained / Qual’d. This is a big thing. Old laws are being regenerated to account for “foreign” drivers accountability come 01/01/21 where TM’s / CEO’s can be given the points/fines of the offending foreign driver if untraceable. If Sqn’s only use a SOV (minibus) “rarely” the option of a self drive hire would be the route to go - as long as the driver has the correct license to do so.
Having spent most of a rainy afternoon looking at DVSA, RAFAC and local council guidance, it does seem that we’ll need to jump through some more hoops to keep running our SOV.
Grumpy, what training or quals would you suggest for a Sqn MTO to manage 1 x SOV (maybe 2 if we win the lottery) and 6-10 drivers from local Sqns who drive the vehicle?
Hi Grounded, the only qual I know of is the Transport Manager qual. Lot of work for one bus though. It might be wort having a chat with your local MTTT&L, there may be a different course the MOD know more about as it will be used for MOD tasks even though operated under Section 19 permit.
ymmv (pun intended), but I’ve actually had less stress being on a unit without a SOV than with one - it seems I’ve been very lucky with Phoenix / WHQ though. Previously, I’ve been on units which did have a SOV, so WExO wouldn’t authorise a hire vehicle. The SOV was old & unreliable. It would need jump starting between consecutive weekends, but the CWC wouldn’t / couldn’t pay for all the repairs and the OC wouldn’t get rid of it
Hiya,
Had a quick read thru the thread and i wonder if someone could just confirm for me?
We have two SOV, one 10 years old, the other over 12.
The 10 year old one is subject to 3 monthly safety inspections? and the older one is subject to 6 weekly safety checks? Regardless of mileage or whether its used?
We are considering getting rid of the older bus, since organising a service and MOT can be a challenge sometimes, let alone 6 weekly checks, as we dont have anyone qualified to do it for us … and then there is the cost - we have been quoted about £100 for a safety inspection.
Regards
C
I’m not a road transport specialist, so this is just speculation on my part… but in a nutshell, yes.
That is what the industry standard is, and that seems to be what HQAC are saying we should do.
As far as I can tell, the timescale between inspections is only suggested, not prescribed. That said, should a vehicle defect be found on a routine inspection, or in the worse case, after a fatal accident, and you have ignored the DVSA suggested timescales, then whoever has signed off on the maintenance regime will most likely find themselves on the wrong side of a prosecution.
If your vehicles are used rarely, then I would imagine a pre-use safety inspection before each use would be sufficient, as long as that is documented in your maintenance system.
We are investigating if this is a RAFAC over-reaction…
It appears that the legal requirement is MOT every 12 months, as the use of a Section 19 Permit absolves you from commercial licensing & regulations.
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Just meeting the legal minimum isn’t necessarily the right answer though. I’d imagine you’d still be held against industry best practice.
But which industry? Professional drivers, Military, or youth groups?
I have a staff member who is a vehicle mechanic and driver for a large defence contractor who is involved with (obviously) rigorous standards. He has been discussing with his boss and their opinion is that as we aren’t a commercial operator and unlikely to be doing hundreds of miles every week unlike them, then there is room to flex the timescales a bit. We already do daily walk around checks anyway, and he has the list of safety inspection criteria. The only ones that are different are brake efficiency and headlight beam adjustment.
My plan is to see how much a local garage we have used for years would charge for 3 additional safety checks per year, one per quarter, in addition to the MOT. We also need to keep all the paperwork and a system of reporting defects and recording what was done to fix them, which shouldn’t be too onerous.
Other than that, it’s very hard to actually meet the professional driver industry standard for a voluntary organisation and we should do the best we can with what we have (although I await with interest @themajor’s investigations.
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Good question, and not sure. I’d bet a reasonable amount it wouldn’t be the youth group standard though.
Corrected that for you 
We happen to have the County Fire Brigade Fleet Management Centre around the corner so might be able to buy a favour, as the checks do require a rolling road.
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I’ve just seen a squadron on Facebook, put their minibus up for sale.
It’s DVSA guidance, and we drive PSVs albeit under a Permit. I guess it doesn’t matter what industry we think we’re in, it’s whether our PSVs should be subject to the same expectations as a transport company?
Quite. The HSE issue guidance notes on various subjects. They are not law, but if something goes wrong, I’d hope the person in the dock had some cast iron reasons for ignoring them.
Where does it say the safety inspections require a rolling road please.
Thanks
I think it’s probably for the brake test, so doesn’t necessarily need a rolling road but easier to do on one.
Ah ok. Thanks
That is an assumption and not necessarily true though.
The DVSA guide says a brake roller, or a decelerometer, so I’d agree with your assumption!
Can’t you just take it out with no Cadets in put your foot down and then just slam on the brakes? That’s how we test the cars at work.