OCs are nominated as jointly responsible because they have a uniform, as there is no real way to hold the CWC to account. By the same token you could ask why there are questions about SOVs on the sqn AI questionnaire, if it’s deemed as the CWC’s responsibility.
If we had an SME I doubt their advice would be practical.
When would you carry out checks? I wouldn’t check anything on my car at night or in failing light unless I’d had problems. Therefore it would mean going at the weekend.
Whichever way up, a few garages will have been making several quid out of many people and places with vehicles that have been just sitting since March.
In the RAFAC bubble, that makes sense, but in the real world, I suspect that that wouldn’t hold up.
I was being a little sarcastic, sorry. We’ve had a Master Driver (attached to HQAC for (2?) years, to review and advise on such things.
You cant decide that.
It’s written in the dept for transport rules that vehicles such as SOVs have to be inspected every X weeks.
X depends on various factors including size and weight of vehicle.
The MAXIMUM time inbetween inspections I could find was 10 weeks.
Edit - See below
This is a direct copy and paste job from the Gov.uk website.
My bold.
11.1 Summary of Guide to Maintaining Roadworthiness
There are 2 separate sets of vehicle checks and inspections that should be carried out. These are:
- daily walkaround checks
- vehicle safety inspection and routine maintenance inspections to be carried out at set intervals on items which affect vehicle safety, followed by the repair of any faults
These are in addition to the servicing of the vehicle and the MOT test.
11.2 Daily walkaround checks
These must be undertaken each time before a vehicle is used and are checks on things like engine oil, brakes, tyre pressures, warning instruments, lights, windscreen washers and wipers. They’re usually undertaken by drivers.
11.3 Vehicle safety inspections and routine maintenance checks
These inspections are in addition to the routine daily walkaround checks and the MOT test. The maintenance checks can be contracted out to a third party such as a garage but whoever carries out the checks must be able to recognise faults such as parts wearing out too quickly. They should also know what the standards of performance and normal wear of parts are. You should have a written agreement with the contractor if maintenance is contracted out. DVSA can assist you on the form this should take.
The person undertaking the safety inspection should sign the form declaring that, in their opinion, the vehicle is roadworthy.
You’re still responsible for your vehicle’s condition even if the maintenance is contracted out. Your permit could be at risk if the maintenance isn’t adequate.
Routine checks should be carried out at set intervals which are time rather than mileage based, eg every 6 weeks. The ‘owner’s manual’ supplied with your vehicle should set the minimum recommended maintenance checks advised by the manufacturer. But, bearing in mind that passengers are to be carried on your vehicle, and possibly a number of different drivers used, you should carry out more frequent safety checks. DVSA recommend that inspections are carried out at least every 10 weeks. You must ensure that a safety inspection is carried out before it’s used, if your vehicle is used very rarely.
Specialist equipment should be inspected and serviced according to the manufacturer’s recommendations. There are additional requirements for passenger lifts and ramps - see below.
Drivers must be able to report promptly any defects or symptoms of defects that could adversely affect the safe operation of vehicles. Reports must be made in writing and you should make sure you record details of any work done to fix the problem. There should be provision to allow drivers to report nil defects, where no faults have been found. Drivers’ defect reports that record any faults should be kept for at least 15 months.
Safety inspections must include those items covered by the appropriate Department for Transport annual test. It’s vital that safety critical items, eg braking systems are checked regularly. Safety inspections should be subject to pre-planning and a maintenance planner or wall chart should be used to identify dates at least 6 months in advance of when they’re due. The system of safety inspections must be regularly monitored particularly in the early stages. You should be prepared to change the frequency of checks as appropriate based on your monitoring. Records of any remedial work carried out should be kept for at least 15 months.
The safety inspection report should include a) vehicle details b) a list of all items to be inspected c) when the inspections are carried out and by whom d) the result of the inspection e) details of any rectification work and f) a declaration that defects have been rectified satisfactorily. Staff carrying out safety inspections must be competent to assess the significance of defects. Assistance must be available to operate the vehicle controls as necessary. There must be a system to ensure that any vehicles with defects that are or could be dangerous are not used until the defects have been rectified. Permit holders who undertake their own safety inspections must have adequate facilities and tools available. They must be appropriate to the number and size of vehicles used.
Any change to maintenance arrangements or safety inspections for large buses must be notified to DVSA immediately.
I’ve just spoken to a family member who works in a commercial vehicle workshop. He reckons that his company would charge around £100 for a single 2 axle PSV safety inspection. A squadron in my wing runs a 13 year old transit bus. If we’re interpreting it correctly, then they will need to find another £800 a year to pay for the safety inspections…
We do our checks every 6 weeks. They used to do 10 but got told to do it every 6. PCV60 is the safety inspection for Passenger carrying vehicles check sheet.
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i wonder what is classed as “rarely”
in normal times i would estimate our SOV is used 2 a month, would be that considered rare usage?
i suspect there are units out there who don’t use their SOV frequently though
Makes me wonder where people put the threshold between “worth having” and “costly car park ornament”…
Mostly on the flexibility and last minute option.
Flexibility, I can understand, but last minute option, how? All activities have to go through the approvals process, surely transport is one of them.
Gone are the days of organising something mid week for the weekend 
Ask the Judge who’s presiding over the case - just make sure it’s not your case! 
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That’s nonsense.
ACTO 10 allows sqn cdrs to self authorise non risk to life events.
In Q4 2019. I self authorised the following events (within a week) all we used the minibus for.
Cinema trip.
Fund raising bagpack.
Museum visit.
Last minute gliding slot - subsequently canx.
Prob some.others but cant recall right now.
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All things which, without an SOV would’ve required 3 months planning and paperwork only to be told that they potentially wouldn’t qualify for Phoenix/Clarity.
I’d rather have the SOV - added expenses - than go without.
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I’d love an SOV. I have had Phoenix/Clarity cancel minibus hire 3 times 12 hrs before we have needed them.
7pm and having to let cadets down due to not being able to get a replacement vehicle.
I’ve run a unit without a bus, never again.
Wow, that’s bad. Never known that issue - at least to that extent.
I imagine it would have been the provider that cancelled - do you know who/was it the same one each time and how was this reported?
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We’ve had a number of issues. My all time favourite Phoenix issue was them sending 3 x cars as they didn’t have a 15 seater minibus available…
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It was not fun. SHB. Took 5 in the end out of 15.
Passed it up The chain of command. Not the first time it had happened either.
If the CWC are the owners, then they can be held to account. As the owner/operator it is the same situation as in any PCV/LGV/Community Bus situation. This means the systems need to be in place so that the owner can be sure it is safely operated at any given time, hence all the requirements, even as regards driving hours and suitability to drive. I remind you of the school minibus crash on the M40 somewhile ago.
Owners of vehicles cannot delegate liability, and there have been cases before Traffic Commissioners where owner/operators have declared a lack of day to day knowledge, and that has cut no ice with the TC.
Whilst that is irrelevant here, it means that those parties who promote use of multi seated transport, have an obligation to those being transported to do so safely. Certainly it has to be safer than allowing a CFAV to transport cadets in a car at high speed, something which did happen.
The unanswered question however is why has HQAC suddenly stopped being the applicant for Section 19 permits? Is it so that no-one can claim that an SOV is being operated by the RAFAC. After all one could assume up to now that the Squadron (and thereby the RAFAC) has been the operator, even displaying wording to that effect.
I wonder what next - cessation of payments towards usage?
Welcome back.
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