Small unit of approx 30 cadets. I am a recently commissioned CI having been on the unit for a combined (staff) total of 13 years. Since the birth of my children I have become one of the ‘once a week’ cadre. Average hours a week are 1hr travelling, 3 hrs parade, 2 hours work from home admin (training officer)
Multiply by 4 for an approximate 24 hrs a month plus one weekend activity (strictly regulated by Mrs Phantom)
Thank you everyone for all your comments and invaluable insight.
While I appreciate the idea that it’s a “how long is a piece of string…?” situations - it made me wonder whether Wing upwards really appreciate how much time CFAVS put in.
Which ever way you look at it, there is a recruitment crisis.
But add to that a morale crisis.
When I was much younger, many of the OCs and senior staff were typically retirees - often ex-RAF, putting something back in and continuing to enjoy their glory days in blue.
I am left wondering how many younger CFAVs are either over committing or over-stretching themselves at the expense of their domestic relationships and their own mental health.
When you consider a full time job is typically around 40/45 hours - spending a further 50% of your “working week” volunteering…
I recognise the invaluable support of many companies and organisations that support their employees with additional paid leave - but this is by no means universal.
Furthermore - for self employed workers , for a start there’s obviously no paid leave, but any time not working = not earning.
What prompted my initial question was concern for a dear friend that is regularly being met by obfuscation and an onerous attitude by staff at WHQ.
The feeling I get is that there’s a disconnect between the Permanent staff and the CFAVs - ultimately forgetting what the V stands for.
But the sense of obligation of many CFAVs across all ranks to their units and their cadets, far outweighs any sense of obligation to Corps.
Has it always been like this - or, is it just my experiences / this Wing?
So, as a follow up question - do you feel your Sector / Wing recognises all the effort you put in - and takes a collaborative approach to support…?
Do you feel that you are continually expected to do even more, with even less…?
(This isn’t meant to be negative thread, bashing Senior Staff, I’m just trying to get a measure as to whether it was across the board - or a local problem.
As with everything, if you’re having fun, it’s not work - but when it’s not fun, why would you keep banging your head…?)
Have said it elsewhere but…
My focus is purely on the cadets and staff of my sqn - every thing else is background noise. TBH I dont really care about the rest of the corps so long as I can deliver the maximum cadet experience I can with the time and resources I have to hand. Sounds selfish but down to situational reality.
Mrs B_L strictly controls the hours I can give to my hobby/obsession (guess which one is her description) so I might get 1 weekend day a month
I do not get extra leave from work so camps/courses etc don’t happen (ones I have done have had to be worked into periods between employments)
My pond is small but very important to me
Both of these points are truths never spoken about until it is far too late.
In the case of those who are self-employed, no holiday pay, no sick pay except SSP and a need to get back to work quickly to start earning again.
I’m afraid those behind the fence have little concept of the ‘outside world’, just look at the problems with staff having to take days off work to attend Wing HQs to have clearances signed off.
The irony is, that being self employed CAN have a massive benefit of being able to be flexible - an ability to plan your own work pattern, to enable you to escort cadets to a last minute AEF.
But this also comes at a cost elsewhere.
But when it becomes “expected”, thats when it becomes a problem - or more commonly, when it’s taken for granted.
This is why I always take issue with needless / redundant or duplicated paperwork and form filling.
While this routinely / regularly / always (feel free to select) with many public sector organisations, such as the MoD and the civil service, where people are employed and salaried, then crack on - this is a problem for the senior management.
When time and effort of volunteers is squandered - then this is a problem for the individual.
When I pointed this out to my (former) Wing Commander, instead of being met with understanding, I was vilified and rebuked - along the lines of “do you know who you’re speaking to?”
And it’s THIS attitude that I am still hearing about from friends.
An example - a rather long and detailed expenses claim (covering spring & summer - so lots of travelling and VA) was submitted, but single box hadn’t been completed - “name of payee”. A simple oversight.
Claim was submitted, claimant waited and waited - nothing, no contact. Claimant asks CO to investigate. CO contacts WHQ - WHQ acknowledges they did receive it, noticed the error - and put it to one side, NFA. CO asks WHY did no one bother to contact the claimant? “We’re too busy. If they can’t get their paperwork straight, we won’t be wasting our time chasing them…”
CO reminds Wing staff that they’re paid and this is an expense claim for a VOLUNTEER.
“We have warned you guys of the importance of accuracy…”
CO asks, “could you not have just rung or emailed the CFAV, asked for the bit of info and filled it in for them?”
“No - that’s not policy - it HAS to be done by the claimant, to prevent fraud”.
“Then can you return the document to the claimant, so that they can?”
“No, to prevent unnecessary expense to the public purse. They will have to submit it themselves…”
For such a trivial matter, the relationship between that CFAV and WHQ would be forever tarnished - for the sake of some stamps.
What’s more - nothing spreads faster than bad news - so other CFAVs hear what’s happened and similarly THEIR view is affected.
Rather than offering a collaborative attitude of help and support - WHQ are seen as obstructive, unsupportive and disrespectful of the sacrifice made by volunteers.
Going back to self employed vs salaried role.
I HAVE to achieve customer satisfaction as the client can go elsewhere…
As opposed to “they HAVE to go through me… so what are they going to do?”
When I was an OC, I went to my full-time job to escape RAFAC.
The Corps ask a hell of a lot of their OCs and, in my experience, don’t provide sufficient support to enable new OCs to meet the Corps’ expectations of them.
The biggest issue was often short-notice deadlines. That, combined with contractors only visiting units Mon-Fri 9-5 gave the impression that the seniors view CFAV as working for the Corps full-time and don’t care about their personal lives.
Again, just my own interpretation. Others may have had a different experience. For context, when I took over the unit, there was only myself and 1 other CFAV, which exacerbated the issue in the short-term.
Quite - and the problem is that the overwhelming majority of CFAVs will bend over backwards to try and fit in with this mentality - and when pressed about it will shrug their shoulders (almost with a Gallic boof) and say something along the lines of “well, that’s just the way it’s always been…”
Typically where there’s a retired CFAV or two, then much of this is less of a problem, particularly if they’re the sort that love having something to fill their days in… but not every unit is like that.
It’s been over 30 years since I was a cadet - on that time, working hours and patterns have changed - I wonder if the average age of OCs has changed much in that time too.
What’s meant to be a hobby and something that you enjoy, is rapidly becoming unpaid part time job, with a lot of overtime.
Where squadrons have plenty of volunteers to help share the workload is one thing - but it also means much more “management” from the OC.
(Preaching to the choir) But getting and retaining sufficient staff is going to be problematic, when many of the existing staff are being demoralised with such regularity.
I noted in other threads, “do the WC RC and HQAC monitor this group?” and how do they feel about it…?
I was actually comforted to see some repainted to say that some definitely do - and use it to “take the temperature”.
So, for their benefit - I challenge you to have a frank conversation with your OCs and their staff, and ask them - how many hours are you putting in? Do you feel that your time is valued? Are you coping with the amount of commitment you’re giving - and is your family / domestic life compatible and content with your commitments?
Because I know of at least one OC who is already planning to throw in their papers over the way they’re being treated in a regular basis - and I dare say there are plenty of others.
Which would be easier - being proactive about the situation, or having to replace OCs that will certainly have made their feelings known in the squadron… and probably Sector, if not Wing.
About 1.5 to 2 hours a day, most days - plus weekend activities…
Hammer, meet head of nail.
We have vastly underutilised, paid civil servants who should be doing half the things assigned to OCs.
Also, the OC of my current unit is considering jacking it in due to the demands. This would be the 10th or 11th total change of OCs in the Wing since we came back to parading in person (not including the ones who didn’t return post-Covid).
Covid has and will continue to change how people feel about volunteering. Before the RAFAC was a habit, you just didn’t think about the problems, gripes and grinds of the organisation. Post covid when people had their lives altered and found new ways of working, new employment and far more time for families, it was never going back to being as it was. In particular with families and partners have more demands on a person, or even they actually saw each other again instead of being ‘passing ships in the night’.
RAFAC ‘management’ from probably sector and at least Wing level upwards really haven’t realised the world has changed forever and don’t really know what to do about it.
In some ways, I think part of the problem lies at the heart of the organisation:
How HQAC sees RAFAC… and who is its target audience and purpose?
How RAF sees RAFAC… and what does it REALLY want from the VOLUNTEER staff and the cadets?
How do cadets and their families see RAFAC - and what are they wanting to achieve from being a member of the organisation.
WIWAC (When I was a cadet!), the emphasis felt very firmly on helping young people to develop themselves, via supported access to adventurous activities and…, the opportunity to learn more about flying - and even get numerous opportunities to GO flying - ultimately, it felt that we were always doing “something”.
Looking back, it was education beyond the school classroom - a low key positive reinforcement of citizenship and teamwork.
While there was frequent interaction with the RAF, via weekend AT camps, shooting camps and week long (mostly) blue camps - there was very little sense of the ATC being a recruitment tool for the RAF - it was all very passive.
Listening to whispers; it would seem that this is part of the problem… the RAF want more in return for their support of RAFAC….
“More” being more applicants across all sections, skills and abilities, but most importantly bringing STEM and cyber backgrounds and education with them, to enrich each recruitment cohort…
In other words, the RAF are ratcheting up their demands, with RAFAC meant to go along with it… never mind the reasons why CFAVs joined, or wanted to achieve for themselves….
And this is the philosophical difference of being volunteer staff… if you’re a volunteer, typically you’re looking for some sort of “non-financial reward”… if you’re a member of staff - you’re an employee…
It’s late and I’m not explaining myself clearly, but essentially I think there’s a bit of a fun sponge going about - making everything harder to get authorised and harder to deliver - let alone far more time consuming planning it in the first place.
And again - it all this consumption of “time and effort” that volunteers are expected to give more and more of, unquestioningly.
His name is Tony 
It would have been interesting to see two things, who else was shortlisted for the post of Commandant and then what was the brief from OC 22 Gp?
Primary role is off sqn, so not alot of “contact time”.
However, im spending at least three times a month at the sqn, a weekend a month with my primary, and a weekend a month with my supernumerary duty.
Its almost 1am, and I’m off to bed now, after finalising Main Events List, nominal roles, sending off catering requests, MT bookings, movement orders…and sorting a clothing order.
I just help out every chance i get. Every week, basically
In my Wing, there is very much an understanding and appreciation at Wing and sector level. It goes wrong the moment you hit fulltime employees of the organisation where short lead times and pointless admin is imposed. The uniformed element of our Wing put in the same effort the Squadron’s do.
I think what you have written is very true. The ones nearer the top need to realise this!
There is also very little staff training. Especially with roles like adjutant and training officer. Where you are expected to just get on with it.
I am also working 37 hours and do 3 nights a week as we have a band, i enjoy it though. Im very proud of the band!
I am also addicted to media a bit!
I do what weekends i want to do. But when I was younger i did too much. I sometimes think that is why i didnt have children. Luckily now i have a lovely partner!
I’m a commissioned officer and an adjutant on my unit. I’m down every parade night but leave before finals due to family commitments and I often get there for dot on time or 10 mins late or so due to work. I can’t make many weekend activities at present due to childcare but when Valiant Jnr is old enough, she will hopefully join up.
I would love to give more at the moment, but it would be to the detriment of other things, so I’m trying to maintain a good balance, mainly for my mental health.
In my Wg, we have several ex cadets now commissioned or as SNCOs, some as Sqn Cdrs at Plt Off/Fg Off rank, but who all do an incredible amount of work for the Corps, some attending their and other Sqns 3 - 4 nights a week as well as 2 - 3 weekends and many also have Wg specialist staff roles too. That level of involvement is not sustainable in the long term even if these individuals currently argue that it is. In my experience whilst these staff members are undoubtedly enthusiastic, their approach to the organisation is highly incestuous and their attitudes are insular with little regard to looking elsewhere for advice or experience, perhaps because they have no experience of elsewhere! As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, the ATC has become a habit for these young, ex cadet staff members and unfortunately I think senior management at Wg level and above are content to use and abuse that habituation.
I’ve long held the view, and I’d welcome other’s thoughts on this, that we are trying to do too much at grass roots level and consequently there is pressure on Sqn Cdrs to provide everything that the Corps offers as they don’t want to be seen to be a ‘lesser performing Sqn’. By way of example of how we’ve had ‘activity creep’, and without wanting to sound like Teflon, I recall as a cadet, we did basic first aid as part of 1st Class trg, if you wanted to do more, you went to St John; some of us (not all by any stretch) did DofE under the supervision of the specialist Wg or area staff officer; some Sqns did radio if they had the kit; most, but not all, did shooting; nobody did leadership as a formal qualification, it happened as an add on; those are just a few. We also didn’t have the requirement for staff to hold qualifications to deliver most of what we did, that’s a separate discussion, but relevant to the workload on us. Add into the mix the ever increasing admin requirements for even the most trivial activity and it’s easy to see how people get overloaded.
My solution would be to go to 1 ‘normal’ parade night a week, the Scouts do this with no issues, I’d be surprised if we saw any drop in achievement for our cadets if we did so and I currently have several cdts who do exactly this because of other commitments. One day a week would go a long way to reducing the pressure on our grass roots staff. We also need to be realistic on what we can offer and encouraging, even obliquely, Sqns to offer everything should be avoided unless they have the staff to do so without overloading. ‘Cutting your cloth’ has to be the first option, not the last resort.
They do but they do more at weekends - not whole weekends maybe but a Saturday or a few hours on a weekend morning - plus local camps etc
Also their badge system actively encourages their members to work on things at home, so sometimes the weekly meeting is just where the badge is signed off by the leader.
Though we have self study material I’m not sure doing things mostly at home suits our way of instructing or is necessarily what we want?
1x a week could still work but it would need some filtering out of what we do, the risk is that 1 night ends up being drill & classifications and the rest falls by the wayside.