How military is your Squadron?

The most important thing is to explain, in prescriptive detail, exactly what it is you want people to say and do.

Change may or may not be appreciated, but I absolutely guarantee that if you require people to do ‘something’ without actually spelling out what you want them to do, and then get the hump when they don’t do what you want, you’ll have a catastrophic morale problem in less time than it takes the rest of your staff to say ‘tosser’.

I understand where you’re coming from - I once served on an ATC Sqn where female Officers were addressed as ‘Ma’am Surname’…

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Things like “Ma’am Smith” and anyone who says See-WO when dealing with a CWO would get my boot up their backside on Day 1!

My Sqn is quite relaxed but still makes sure the basics are there.

For example we very drill orientated and AT orientated. Drill is very serious, has to be right etc. AT ranks and surnames go out the window

We do the usual DofE stuff, couple of musicians but we are a sport Sqn. Not like back in my day with learning from a blue book with multiple choice exam. I couldn’t tell you the last time ours were in uniform and when they were it looked like their uniform was dragged through dusty bushes. Drill is questionable and a chore to get the right NCO to teach as the cadets often MESS about :confused:

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So you’re a scout group?

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A post was split to a new topic: CWO: how do you address yours?

Split topic as that question is a whole can of worms on its own!

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Can I like that more than once please?

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I concur. I was serving during the late 70s and through to the late 80s and we were pretty relaxed.Certainly when I went to Army bases they were pretty strict in comparison.Getting back to topic though the RAFAC ATC is meant to be a military based youth organisation.Some discipline is needed.I know at my last sqn it was the oldest sqn in the wing so had a bit of tradition and history behind it which I was very proud of.The cadets overall bought into that and it led to a good esprit de corps.

Chain of command…but mean it. Not sure how large the Sqn is but from the top down don’t interfere. Hand out responsibility to staff and they in turn to cadet SNCO’s. Allow the cadet SNCO’s to feel like they play an important role in the day to day running of the Squadron. Mentor and encourage ideas and let the cadets see them through.

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Exactly.

Clear behaviour expectations.
Consistent enforcement and sanctions.
Model behaviour: if you even once call another staff member or a senior cadet by their first name rather than rank, you immediately shoot yourself in the foot.

It’s really hard in a CCF unit - you see the same kids a couple of hours later in a completely different context where you might be Mr Smith and they might be Johnny, but at CCF they must understand it’s Flt Lt Smith and Cadet Jones. Most of us get it wrong.

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We try and be as ‘military’ as is practical. The cadets refer to staff as ‘sir’, ‘ma’am’ etc. We refer to them by surname, or occasionally Mr. … or Miss … (something that will cause issues soon I’m sure!).

A nearby unit refers to their cadets by first name - which I think could send out mixed messages.

We try and keep a good standard of uniform.

A unit very easily slip down to a youth club if things slacken off too much.

Yes, the ‘real’ RAF are more relaxed, but then it’s their job - no don’t really expect them to be bulling shoes every day etc.

Remembering always that we’re a funny sort of half-way house between recruit training and real world.

The standards required during RAF recruit training are very different to those required once actually “on the job”.
The RAF have recruits for mere weeks; we have cadets for 5-7 years.

If we go too far towards the “real world” approach, eg calling subordinates by their first name, referring to seniors as “boss”, “flight”, &c are we properly preparing them for service? They’ll have a hell of a surprise when they get to recruit training (those who do). Not to mention that one of the things which sets us apart from other youth groups is the military influence.

On the other hand we shouldn’t confuse the ATC with Bad Lads Army. 7 years of solid recruit training standards would be tough for anyone and isn’t reflective of life actually in the service.

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It is interesting that staff in uniform are stuck in this “recruit training” bubble for as long as they are in uniform and it gets extremely wearing and doesn’t replicate in any way the real life job experience, for staff or even cadets at school.
Thee is a ramble about lack of discipline, but does how we go about things improve discipline. I don’t care really how staff refer to me, fist name or some other moniker as suggested. I tend to refer to them by first name, as that’s what happens at work.

You know what else gets really wearing?.. I think everybody else does.

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Probably for the best :wink: but I don’t think you’re special by using first names for staff.

Pretty sure most of us play the game - formal when cadets are around, whatever goes when they aren’t.

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Good thing the cadets aren’t employed the RAF AC.

We aren’t a workplace and neither are we the real RAF, however we have a standard to uphold when wearing their uniform and being part of a youth military organisation.

I use first names with all staff I know, doesn’t matter if Cadets are there or not. The only difference between us is one chap or lass likes to wear a uniform and get saluted. I’ve had CI’s who joined after me go into uniform and turn in to (add a suitable word that would get censored) I never refer to uniformed volunteers as sir or Maaaaa’am but I like to be a rebel :upside_down_face:

One of the mainstays of militaryness is IMO footdrill, however we as squadrons are not “scaled” for somewhere to do it, some may be lucky and have sufficient space in their compound… We used to use a primary school playground but that school became part of an academy chain 4 years ago, they knocked down the caretakers house which now means the caretaker lives off-site, which now means the gates are locked. So now we use a council run car park if there is enough space, so maybe once every 2-3 weeks, weather dependent.

We have permission to use the back of the our local supermarket which is fenced in. We had half our old parade ground built on and it was a case of what now?! One of our staff went to google maps and starting from the Sqn looked for big, safe open spaces and 3 or 4 calls later got in contact with the supermarket and they said yes not a problem and gave us the key code. When I was a cadet we used a school grounds and had a spare key to the padlock. I doubt all these academy’s as the majority are would still allow that now.

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