RMP/RAF Police have zero jurisdiction over Cadets or CFAV’s unless that CFAV is a Service Helper, they wouldn’t even be able to investigate a suspected offence on MOD premises that involves a non-service person which is why they are not the people we are advised to contact. MDP Might have some jurisdiction if they believe that an offence is taking place on MOD property but even then they would likely pass any investigation over to the Home Office police service for the area as they would be the People best placed to conduct any investigation. (There are areas of the Children’s Act which specifically exclude specialist police forces such as MDP and insist that Home Office Police take primacy).
1 Like
I’m not sure if you’re being intentionally obtuse, or if you really don’t get it?
That statement means absolutely nothing. You can’t make any deductions based upon those data.
It’s dead simple… Civcom members aren’t routinely permitted access to cadets - therefore it becomes very difficult for any of the dodgy persons amongst them to do any harm.
CivCom aren’t given unescorted access to cadets = CivCom don’t appear to have abused any cadets.
Pointing out that all the cases involve CFAVs is utterly pointless. One might as well point out that it’s always wet when it rains!
Trying to suggest that somehow this means that CFAVs can’t be trusted and that CivComs are the best people to ‘keep an eye on us all’ is not only twisting the facts to the extreme, it’s also incredibly insulting.
6 Likes
Actually, from direct experience, the position is that RAF police have complete jurisdiction over uniformed personnel representing the RAF. Even now a civilian organisation. Civvy police have the right over any MOD situation. What cannot happen is that civvy police and RAF police carry out their investigations at the same time. One must precede the other.
1 Like
Not if the uniformed personnel aren’t subject to service law, which we’re not.
3 Likes
You don’t actually have to be uniformed for service police to have jurisdiction over you.
Civvy police would handle this kind of situation, no question.
Yes I agree these days it is more likely to be so.
But Bob is right. Both police forces have full jurisdiction over civilian and military.
See previous …
You have ATC units outside the UK, so would you hand people over to local civ pol, and within the UK , we’ve seen how very badly the civpol have handled sex abuse/grooming/rape in the past, mainly due to politial considerations and squeemishness about certain situations. In the former they have been very poor in resisting pressure from ‘a n others’. Service police don’t have this problem as they are accountable ‘centerally’ rather than to a local pollitically dependent PCC.
You don’t get to select who handles the case. The MOD have policies for this kind of thing, and civpol are to be informed in all such matters. Outside of the UK this may fall to service police, but I’m no legal beagle.
No, they don’t.
The MoD police are a full police force with statutory powers of arrest, but service police only have jurisdiction under certain circumstances.
MoD police have no jurisdiction outside the Uk. They can act at the governments behest as training teams in post conflict areas
IIRC unless they are investigating crimes within the military (or doing a similar but in a military only way or environment) then they have the same powers as civilians. They can perform arrests same as civilians can - cases might hold a bit tighter as they know the law but that’s about it.
1 Like
We need to broaden our perspective. Safeguarding does not just revolve around sexual abuse.
I don’t think it’s a purely a moral imperative, I think we should act if staff are victimised / bullied, the same as we would for cadets.
If a cadet was ‘picked on’ the way some staff have there would be suspensions, investigations etc, but as they are staff they are deemed easy targets, by those who should know better. This group should be subject to the fullest extent of the system’s wrath, as if they had targeted cadets.
I also wonder what happens if a member of staff becomes subject to a cadet fantasy? Good looking member of staff of whom a cadet becomes infatuated, nothing reciprocated, but it is obvious and the member of staff is uneasy and makes a complaint, what would the organisation do? Everything we are “taught” is about kids being ‘hounded by adults, but not if the boot is on the other foot.
The Government has just put up some money for safeguarding training within the Charity Sector as well as part funding a study into Bullying.
There seems to be a correlation between the two, as bullying is simply a milder form of abuse, both being an act committed by one or more individuals against someone of lesser status.
Not sure how to categorise the victim in relation to the abuser/bully but you know what I mean.
Indeed this can happen, and I am sure school teachers have to face that problem. Difficult but essential to be able to recognise the signs and not place oneself in a situation where one might be compromised. The devil comes in all shapes and forms as the good book would have us all believe.
One thing for sure, the ATC tends to be in denial until something has gone beyond the point of no return, but the worst is to claim totally robust systems which are foolproof and would not allow anything to happen anyway.
1 Like
The irony is as soon as you say something is robust or foolproof something happens to prove otherwise.
I’m not sure it’s denial as much as feeling among the unwashed at HQAC etc that the ATC is special and above the normal fallibilities of systems and frailties of people in the organisation. Which a few reports, do as we all know, blow this idea out of the water.