with my RBL hat on I am the Ceremonial Officer and currently going through the organisatio of the the upcoming Remembrance Parade.
Given a change of OC from last yeat i visited the local ACF to introduce myself and to answer any questions regarding the our invitation to attend the Parade.
in speaking to the OC they explained that the Cadets were being converted on to “heavy drill” in preperation for the Parade
what is “heavy drill”? i think it was said hey use “rifle drill” normally and so need converting…what is the difference and why is it there?
‘Heavy drill’ in an Army-cadetism, there’s no such thing.
The ACF officer would mean that they’ve started learning normal drill for the parade rather than doing ‘light drill’ (which is a thing), which is the drill done by the Rifles. Historically, there was actually ‘light drill’ and ‘rifle drill’ which were distinct types of drill used by Light Infantry and Rifle regiments.
Basically, it’s faster. It goes back to the days when drill was the way you moved men around the battle field, the Light Infantry and Rifles moved faster and differently to the Line Infantry (and guns and engineers and cavalry) so had faster and different foot drill.
Edit: I think there’s actually a bit of a debate in the ACF about dets doing light drill. Apparently all Army Cadets should be learning and doing drill in the standard way because that’s what’s in the ACF manual, although it allows for Rifles badged cadets to do light drill as an interest thing occasionally…
“Heavy Drill” is “normal” drill, ie. as done by most of the army and us. “Light Drill” is used by light infantry regiments, I think all now part of The Rifles, possibly hence the term “rifle drill” but this is incorrect.
It includes many oddities such are standing at ease after every movement, marching at a crazy pace of 140 paces per minute in quick time, trailing rifles etc.
But on the upside if they are doing heavy drill it will work fine along side our drill.
[quote=“steve679” post=12356]with my RBL hat on I am the Ceremonial Officer and currently going through the organisatio of the the upcoming Remembrance Parade.
Given a change of OC from last yeat i visited the local ACF to introduce myself and to answer any questions regarding the our invitation to attend the Parade.
in speaking to the OC they explained that the Cadets were being converted on to “heavy drill” in preperation for the Parade
what is “heavy drill”? i think it was said hey use “rifle drill” normally and so need converting…what is the difference and why is it there?[/quote]
No such thing as heavy drill. There is Drill and light drill. As far as you are concerned you can just do things as you would normally as they are apparently “converting”.
I have the Rifles Drill Manual somewhere on my home PC if you are that interested!
I think it is probably actually made up by someone in the LI as a dig a “proper” drill.
I think where an entire county is badged Rifles they can do light drill instead of proper drill, but it does lead to problems at brigade or national camps!
[quote=“talon” post=12364]
I think where an entire county is badged Rifles they can do light drill instead of proper drill, but it does lead to problems at brigade or national camps![/quote]
I can imagine it must be irritating when you want to march somewhere and half the cadets charge off like a DPM clad Usain Bolt who’s just sat on a cactus…
[quote=“tango_lima” post=12366][quote=“talon” post=12364]
I think where an entire county is badged Rifles they can do light drill instead of proper drill, but it does lead to problems at brigade or national camps![/quote]
I can imagine it must be irritating when you want to march somewhere and half the cadets charge off like a DPM clad Usain Bolt who’s just sat on a cactus…[/quote]
MTP cald Usain Bolt I have never seen the ACF down here do Rifle drill and this entire county is badged as the Rifles
this would explain why when we (the ATC) parade with the ACF their drill is always sloppy in comparison given they have a different “standard” on a generic parade night.
given the issues is causes when marching with those who are not marching at “rifle drill” i’m left confused what benefit it has, given the Cadet experience is broadly universal irrespective of geography when will “rifle drill” Cadets ever need to use it over regular drill?
this would explain why when we (the ATC) parade with the ACF their drill is always sloppy in comparison given they have a different “standard” on a generic parade night.
given the issues is causes when marching with those who are not marching at “rifle drill” i’m left confused what benefit it has, given the Cadet experience is broadly universal irrespective of geography when will “rifle drill” Cadets ever need to use it over regular drill?[/quote]
There is no benefit to Rifle drill anymore but as most things military its tradition. If more than one service are on parade at the same time then everyone should do the drill of the senior service present the last time I did this was on the Queen mothers funeral parade I can tell you now that was awkward! I doubt this extends to Cadets but I may be wrong…
this would explain why when we (the ATC) parade with the ACF their drill is always sloppy in comparison given they have a different “standard” on a generic parade night.
given the issues is causes when marching with those who are not marching at “rifle drill” i’m left confused what benefit it has, given the Cadet experience is broadly universal irrespective of geography when will “rifle drill” Cadets ever need to use it over regular drill?[/quote]
Firstly it is light drill or “rifles drill” (Can’t remember if they have changed the name yet), not rifle drill (this is drill with a rifle).
The rifles are probably proud of their drill…but yes, it can look sloppy compared to all arms drill. It isn’t really a lower standard, it is just…different.
[quote=“zinggy” post=12368]
I have never seen the ACF down here do Rifle drill and this entire county is badged as the Rifles[/quote]
I think the RN were present at the Queen Mum’s funeral but if not, does that mean on the main Armistice Parade all three services have to do the RN slidey feet thing?
I think the RN were present at the Queen Mum’s funeral but if not, does that mean on the main Armistice Parade all three services have to do the RN slidey feet thing?[/quote]
Im afraid we did but on the up side the slow march is the same so we didnt have a lot to learn for it
[quote=“talon” post=12378][quote=“steve679” post=12374]thanks all round.
this would explain why when we (the ATC) parade with the ACF their drill is always sloppy in comparison given they have a different “standard” on a generic parade night.
given the issues is causes when marching with those who are not marching at “rifle drill” i’m left confused what benefit it has, given the Cadet experience is broadly universal irrespective of geography when will “rifle drill” Cadets ever need to use it over regular drill?[/quote]
[b]Firstly it is light drill or “rifles drill” (Can’t remember if they have changed the name yet), not rifle drill (this is drill with a rifle).
[/b]The rifles are probably proud of their drill…but yes, it can look sloppy compared to all arms drill. It isn’t really a lower standard, it is just…different.
[quote=“zinggy” post=12368]
I have never seen the ACF down here do Rifle drill and this entire county is badged as the Rifles[/quote]
It isn’t compulsory.[/quote]
Im sure most of us know the difference between the two after reading your post I have no idea why I called it Rifle drill but drill with a rifle is arms drill not Rifle drill
[quote=“talon” post=12378]Firstly it is light drill or “rifles drill” (Can’t remember if they have changed the name yet)
[/quote]
They were two distinct forms of drill, but I don’t know enough to know whether the modern form is ‘Rifles drill’, ‘light drill’ or some combination of the two…
One of my grandfathers was Durham Light Infantry during WW1 and in those days (and I think, up until the amalgamation with other Regiments to form the Light Infantry) they marched at a staggering 160 paces per minute.
A slack half hour has given me the opportunity to refer to All Arms Drill manual and fill in the gap in my knowledge and answer some of the points on here:
Rifles Drill - Does appear now to be the correct term for this, the old Light regiments and therefore the Light drill all having now been amalgamated into the Rifles. Chapter 10 is headed Rifles Drill.
Heavy Drill - Does appear to be a term and is used in the All Arms Drill manual to differentiate Rifles Drill. Albeit only in context of Rifles drill.
As mentioned all movements start and end in the at ease position, rifles are trailed not sloped, bayonets (or rather swords to use the Rifles terminology) are not to be fixed, marching pace is 140 ppm.
When parading together with other units sufficient space is to be left in order to allow them to march at the correct pace. However, where this is not practical Rifles units will have to conform to the rest of the parade.
From the first 20secs onwards, the newsreel is entirely ATC-focussed. I’m far from being a drill expert, but it’s interesting to note that the tri-service pace seems fast, all those arms appear unlocked at the elbow, and never taken higher than mid-swing.
(Note also the excellent images of Trenchard and Sinclair, and the Hyde Park / Serpentine 10-abreast/20 Wings march-past).
Another observation: any time I see 1940s British troops marching on old film (of any service, including Cadets), I notice that modern-day US forces still seem to follow closer to that original style of British drill movements circa WW2. By which I mean:
No real 'bending of the knee’
Unlocked/half-swung arms
Not extended paces
Faster, without real pauses
Generally: ‘naval’/re-enactor in pattern.
[color=#ff0000]WARNING - DON’T DO THIS STYLE OF DRILL ON YOUR ATC SQUADRON![/color]
(and don’t be nasty to the American CAP Air Cadet…)
[video width=425 height=344 type=youtube]nFgxDcEo5Jg[/video]
But - this doesn’t mean they’re sloppy (far from it). Just watch this ‘modified drill’ video of American Air Cadets: interesting and strange to behold. The use of arms and leg instead of steeled firearms, for the ‘chicken run’ is something I’ve never seen.
Also, my copy of the RAF March past, dated 1922, is marked 132 paces per minute.
Also, watching old RAF recruit training films from the 1950s, the drill is much more ‘navy’ e.g. no leg parallel to the ground coming to attention, &c.
We have gradually come more round to the ‘heavy’ drill as the years have gone by (that’s what my RSM calls it, and I’m not going to argue with him).
[quote=“tmmorris” post=12505]Also, my copy of the RAF March past, dated 1922, is marked 132 paces per minute.
Also, watching old RAF recruit training films from the 1950s, the drill is much more ‘navy’ e.g. no leg parallel to the ground coming to attention, &c.
We have gradually come more round to the ‘heavy’ drill as the years have gone by (that’s what my RSM calls it, and I’m not going to argue with him).[/quote]
The term heavy drill has nothing to do with it being more aggressive in terms of leg raising etc. It is used to differentiate it from “light drill” ie that used by the light infantry regiments. As pointed out above the bend the knee is a relatively new invention. In fact I recall seeing the footage of the Queens coronation processions in which the Guards do not bend the knee or swing the arms shoulder high. Therefore this is a 1950’s or early 1960’s introduced thing. We “the RAF” followed down the army line, no doubt under the influence of the RAF Regiment, the Navy maintained what everyone else had always done.
I have never seen the ACF down here do Rifle drill and this entire county is badged as the Rifles
but on the up side the slow march is the same so we didnt have a lot to learn for it