This is a little speculative but currently it’s a mission in itself to join the RAF or any of the armed forces.
I suspect because of the skills & confidence we’ve given our air cadets, they’ve got a lot of transferable skills so can jump more easily into other career paths rather than waiting on capita to sort their admin out.
I’m sorry., but you don’t need a AT application for that at all, your talking out of your nether regions. Proof required. It should be covered on your sports RA, coving walk to and from, area you will do sport etc. You don’t need TOPL for use of a sports field, or public indemnity. Proof required.
You need TOPL for AT activities, like orienteering, over a certain number of cadets.
Not to walk down a road to a sports pitch, which is the example.
As much as what you are saying is true per policy, what @Paracetamol has said is a completely believable scenario. Often those in the CoC add unnecessary barriers. Like TOPL for smash local stuff, or requiring an AT app when it’s not needed.
The push it back up to RC North and watch it get smashed back down again. His policy on Challenge Anything is top notch, and he will support at any level where ‘local’ rules are impinging activity.
Which is fine if you’re in North Region.
Im sorry… what.
This is exactly what i was demanded to provide by WHQ and RHQ.
Proof is my lived experience and absolute integrity.
This.
You show me anyone who has said you need an AT application to walk to a sports field… I’ll wait.
TOPL needed as sports field used for leadership activities, radio, AT etc.
I was asked by WHQ to provide the seperate PLI paid by Sqn to cover activities on the sports field.
After a lengthy back and forth including RHQ i managed to convince that not required as TOPL permission includes the required indemities from MOD.
Ref the AT app to walk to the sports field.
The site is too far to be an EUF.
Therefore only options presented to me were to have a seperate activity on SMS for each time we wanted to use it. Sometimes twice monthly.
As part of this application i was told to produce a sub application on SMS for the walk to and from the field as per an AT application.
We were granted a dispensation from RHQ who accepted the paperwork exercise and that we would not need to have the additional cover of 1:10 lowland leader or equiv to walk, as long as we had the 1:10 for the activity.
The end result is i still had to go through VERY LENGTHY admin and paperwork exercises to use a local council sports field. Where as Scouts or anyone else would simply turn up.
As CFAVs we should not be expected to have to argue the case to mitigate initial unrealistic or incorrect asks.
And to be clear. To use said field, we still need TOPL and we still have to submit an sms application each and everytime.
Be it either a sports app, an AT app or an FT app.
Dependant on activity to be undertaken.
This even without the PLI or sep AT app for walking stupidity is STILL MORE than other youth groups.
Our motto needs to change to “if the Scouts et.al dont need it… at least we should ask… do we”.
Now its not very catchy and i dont know the latin for it. But we should at least be aiming to reduce admin.
Still waiting on TKs “bonfire of red tape”.
What a joker.
in short completely agree.
a friend of my is a Scout leader and it is crazy how easy it is for him to “just get on with it” particularly anything outside of the Scout hut, be that a sports night, orienteering, nav exercise, camp craft or whatever it might be.
to add another example to that above:
Turning up to a parade
While the RAFAC requires:
Evidence of PLI of organiser
Submission of am PME (although accept this is due to the MOD sponsored element)
Evidence of a RA (and on occasion been asked to upload a RAFAC RA too)
Maintain a 1:10 ratio
The Scouts simply turn up, in number three to four times larger that the RAFAC, with less than double the staff
yet of the two organisations…which is more “ceremonial” and expected to be “on parade” more?
and i speak with direct experience as the example i mention is experienced as a member of the RBL, organising the parade - and thus receive (or in the scouts example don’t) the requests for X, Y and Z is completed or shared
But, as Tone said during the Townhall, the Scouts have recently killed somebody…
(Albeit, said instructor and event was seemingly rogue and operating outside the published parameters and governance structure… Which justifies (allegedly) why we need more burdensome paperwork, pre-event approval, oversight and governance. Because that, of course, reduces the risk of people going rogue…)
Really? Ours is further than that…
But in going back to the point, is there really anything that would be notably harder to do without the RAF’s involvement?
Maybe top level activities, some of the Gold courses. But that’s really all I can think of. And industry partners could be found for those, one would imagine.
Access to MoD establishments? Possibly a thing, but already a very uneven post code lottery. There are already huge swathes of the country with no RAF station within easy reach, and some pokey Army training estate that’s generally unfit for human habitation isn’t really going to be missed.
What else really would be lost?
There’s probably a 2* in the army equally proud that its called the Army Cadets.
He’s also probably proud that they go civvy flying/parachuting/marshal cars on RAF stations etc. etc.
It would be interesting to see % of RAFAC Cadets that are in the Navy or Army and how that % has changed over recent years, I’ve had a lot of Cadets turned down by the RAF all get accepted by the Navy and just two weeks ago I was sent a message by a Mum of an ex-Cadet, gone to Uni to study law, decided that wasn’t what he wanted to spent his life doing, now at Officer Training for the Navy, didn’t even consider the RAF, so that’s at least ten ex-Cdts in the last couple of years, off the top of my head now with the Navy, it’s been a good few years since I had a Cdt go into the RAF.
I know this is purely anecdotal, but my old sqn was very much the opposite. In about 5 years we had about a dozen join the RAF, 2 to the Army and none to the RN.
But we were a big unit in a prime recruitment area (lower socioeconomic area).
I think we all agree that the MOD and RAF is seriously struck for cash, any cut to the RAFAC budget is going to have a huge impact on what we want/used to do. The RAF is only going to get smaller, so why does it need such a large RAFAC and pay out as much? What money there is would surly be better off spent on the Parent Service…or CS supporting the MOD.
Yes, it gives them high calibre personal, but they need a lot less, likewise the ones they need are becoming more STEM orientated. They don’t care about looking good in public and being the blue footprint as much these day, especially if it cost money.
I’m sure the new CAC will immediately improve the quick fixes like communication, appreciation of the Volunteer and hopefully a better balance of risk, but he (Like TK) can only play the cards he is delt or ordered by the chain of command. If there isn’t any cash and still the huge lack of CS then his hands are pretty well tied. We shall see!
Easiest option (in my opinion as a tax payer) cut the RAFAC down by 40-50%, concentrate the little cash there is on the remaining, weed out the chaff, save on a few hundred CFAV’s VA, ease the workload on the CS, even a drop in FOI requests!!. In 3-4 years no one will remember TK or how it used to be. What’s left will be more focused on what the RAF need for its future.
Duck for cover!!
As “controversial” as it sounds a tri-service cadet service could be the answer, with obvious buy in from the ACF and possibly Sea Cadets. It would almost follow the old CCF model in a sense, you would be argument sake x town Combined Cadet Force, the cadet “experience” could be then tailored to suit, with AT/DoE /1st aid/ Leadership/ Music/Drill (variations apply but not many) then RAFAC can add in the RAF elements of Space/Cyber/AEF & Gliding with the ACF adding their specialisms of Fieldcraft & Shooting. Might need some head banging when it comes with the instructors of the ACF and RAFAC to understand the bigger picture. Ditch working blues for MTPs/No 3s which again will cut down on costs. It could lead to cadet hubs having weekly shooting nights or even more.
The massive downside is the staff above that although they maybe volunteers themselves can’t see a change to benefit the cadets is the best way forwards. The “prestige” of being a old RAF (T) officer is better than retaining cadets. I will always say I am a volunteer with air cadets and then if asked further what I do I explain about how it is set-up and when you go through the responsibility and commitments of an officer they understand what is involved it surprises most people.