Grob FRC's Online?

Having set up a flight simulator at my Squadron, I was wondering if there is anywhere I can get a copy (preferably for free) of the Grob Tutor, Vigilant and Viking FRC’s? (not sure if there even are viking ones, I’ve never done any gliding :confused: )

No.

They should be kept with the instructors and aircraft on the VGS/AEF.

Purely on the fact that they are amended, and you wouldn’t get the updated copy.

Also they should be “taught” by the appropriate instructor too.

This is what I was told when I was poking around for them too, and after being a staff cadet on a VGS I can see why too.

How much do FRC’s actually change though? Surely not that often.
So far I have found an Australian flying school’s FRC’s for the vigilant.

I’ll pick a copy up from the Sqn tomorrow and scan on Monday if I remember I’ve managed to source a few copies over the years

we have a vigilant in ACO livery on ours (FSX)and i am sure there is a Tutor also…they are out there but i have no clue where they came from

Vigilant - https://www.irissimulations.com.au/hangar/flight-simulator-planes/fsx-aviator-series-venture-mg-1

They’re working on a Viking (Grob 103a Twin Astir II)

And as for a Tutor, there’s nothing else out there other than this crude model… but it’s free so who can complain

For the Vigilant, cool I hadn’t seen this, although it costs £29.99
I will be testing out this on sunday. http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=Vigilant+UK&x=-1130&y=-150

However for the Tutor I suggest you look at UKmil’s update for the grob http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=UKMIL+Grob&x=-1130&y=-150

As for the viking, i’m not sure.

The one I posted was UKMILs Tutor, just hosted on a different site.

[quote]
mprentice1 wrote:

However for the Tutor I suggest you look at UKmil’s update for the grob simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keyword…+Grob&x=-1130&y=-150

The one I posted was UKMILs Tutor, just hosted on a different site.[/quote]

Yes. it was, but you only posted the original, hense I said there were updates for it. and besides I think it’s a pretty good model.

[quote=“mprentice1” post=6379]How much do FRC’s actually change though? Surely not that often.
[/quote]

Depends on your definition of often. The last complete re-issue for the Tutor was 2009/10 (introduction of TAS IIRC), and that has been amended a two or three of times since.

With the new prop, and the number of fairly significant changes, I suspect they’ll be re-issued again very soon (handwritten amendments till then!). :slight_smile:

Did you manage to scan a copy?

Afraid admin got the better of me Friday, i’ll pick a copy up tonight, if you PM your ATC email or your OC’s email address i’ll sling it across

I totally agree with Jonays comments.

These are controlled documents and there is a reason for these to be controlled ie Flight Safety etc.

I can’t see any problem with cadets using them for ad-hoc activities, But for Cadets that want to practice for their GS then NO I would not recommend them to undertake this, as you introducing an element of risk of providing invalid and possible unsafe information.

I am CGI, i would be shocked to find out that any of my students were practicing or learning from documents that were not supplied / managed by the VGS.

Any information / practices etc. should be done in house via the VGS and not a flight sim using uncontrolled documents.

Just my penny’s worth…

If a person is undergoing specific flight training and practising the procedures that would be using soon in a real aircraft then they need to be using current copies of the controlled document. Fortunately, those same people will have access to that document.

For all of the thousands of other cadets and staff who simply wish to add a little extra realism to a flight sim experience at a squadron there is no harm whatsoever in using obsolete or simplified FRCs on their imperfect flight model running on an unconvincing simulation platform.

The training value of a simulator within the Air Cadet scope of aviation is barely nil anyway so my personal view is that squadrons may as well use a good model of a Cessna or Piper aircraft with an off-the-shelf checklist and leave the Grobs and their FRCs well alone until they get to fly them.

Agreed - and if you want to go the whole hog you get a red marker and write “FOR TRAINING USE ONLY. NOT FOR FLIGHT” or words to that effect. It also would give the youngsters a bit of an insight into the “real flying” side of things (and then on their next AEF flight they can be amazed at the memory skills of their pilot! :wink: ).

[quote=“chaz” post=6651][quote=“incubus” post=6648]
For all of the thousands of other cadets and staff who simply wish to add a little extra realism to a flight sim experience at a squadron there is no harm whatsoever in using obsolete or simplified FRCs on their imperfect flight model running on an unconvincing simulation platform.
[/quote]

Agreed - and if you want to go the whole hog you get a red marker and write “FOR TRAINING USE ONLY. NOT FOR FLIGHT” or words to that effect. It also would give the youngsters a bit of an insight into the “real flying” side of things (and then on their next AEF flight they can be amazed at the memory skills of their pilot! :wink: ).[/quote]

Yes exactly. I’m not looking to replace the actual instructors. I am looking to for the most part just get cadets used to the concept of using FRC’s. For those that worry about instructors not being competing, of course I share your concern. I will be ensuring that NCO’s /staff that instruct on my sqn’s simulator have a very good understanding of the FTP’s, FRC’s and have completed at least gliding scholarship if not a flying scholarship.

[quote=“mprentice1” post=6652]

Yes exactly. I’m not looking to replace the actual instructors. I am looking to for the most part just get cadets used to the concept of using FRC’s.[/quote]

What I would suggest is using them to introduce to concept of checks, but not learning them. Having cadets learning them verbatim in the RAF training/single seat fast jet mode could end up being counter productive should any of them end up flying the Tutor further on in their careers! :slight_smile:

[quote=“chaz” post=6654][quote=“mprentice1” post=6652]

Yes exactly. I’m not looking to replace the actual instructors. I am looking to for the most part just get cadets used to the concept of using FRC’s.[/quote]

What I would suggest is using them to introduce to concept of checks, but not learning them. Having cadets learning them verbatim in the RAF training/single seat fast jet mode could end up being counter productive should any of them end up flying the Tutor further on in their careers! :)[/quote]

TBH, if I’m flying GIC 2 or 3 I make a point of getting the cadet to call out the checks on the FRCs for me. There’s not anything in FTP 3225 to say I should do this, but nothing written anywhere that says I shouldn’t.

Its not hard when you get said book just make sure on the top and bottom of every page you write in red ink “NOT SUBJECT TO AMENDMENT” that shows its just for reference only its exactly what would be done with an AP