The bit I’ve bolded is why.
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Assuming you’re wearing DPM, why wouldn’t you put creases in your shirt/trousers for barrack use? That being for first aid, leadership etc. Obviously there’s a difference for fieldcraft.
We don’t, except in DPM - although I thought they were going to change that in the AP. I personally don’t pick up cadets in DPM about creases.
DPM - Creases
MTP PCS - No Creases
Not too sure where the barrack dress shirt falls into that though
Depends - is it DPM or MTP?
I think the rules use the terms CS95 and PCS in that instance so there might be confusion, but I’d go with the pattern and intent rather than the technicalities of design.
MTP. So I haven’t ironed creases in mine and it looks a tad weird
Rather annoyingly, people typically iron creases into the barrack dress shirt, which is a bit weird as you wear it with PCS trousers which don’t have creases. Oh well.
On the subject of boots, when I inspect cadets I don’t care for highly polished boots. Boots need to be clean and serviceable which means all marks and scuffs removed or at least some effort made to maintain the leather. It is obvious when it is not done. Of course it is easier with boots like AKUs. I clean my boots with a brush and water and job done.
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To all my honorable colleagues - get a grip! Wear the uniform that is appropriate to the planned activities
- if you want to look smart or do clean non strenuous activities, wear blues; if you're doing a scruffy or strenuous activity, wear cabbage patch uniform. But whatever you wear, concentrate on delivering the outcome of the training. I don't really care what other organisations do, we are here to provide air cadet activities and with the exception of formal parades and some public events (like bag packs, etc.), the quality of a cadet's creases or shine on their boots has very little impact on the outcome of the activity - so please learn to differentiate between what is and isn't important.
And as for "barrack dress" - we parade 2 nights per week and always have a full training programme - who has time for lounging about the "barracks" in their quilted smoking jacket?
As I said, activities such as leadership and first aid are not the messiest but wearing Greens is the most appropriate. Why shouldn’t they look semi presentable in this dress?
Theres a distinct difference between looking presentable and looking after kit…
I think everyone’s agreed that anyone who judges a cadet whether the creases are in the right place and then actually judges and scores it needs to find a different hobby.
What I would expect, As a DI…and I’m seriously anal about dress regs, is that firstly the cadet is wearing either of the correct pattern, that they’ve followed AP1358c as best as given they’ve purchased that kit themselves it may not be spanking new it may be difficult but as a minimum I’d expect badges in the right place, boots cleaned and it doesn’t look like they’ve slept in it (this is pre activity by the way…anyone who does a leadership/first aid exercise and then does a uniform inspection is a moron).
But more importantly…I would want to check the uniform is serviceable, I wouldn’t want to see tears and holes etc…if they do I would point it out and advise it needs replacing.
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My honourable colleague will forgive me for not regarding that opinion as though it were the word of god.
No3 uniform is worn for occasions other than just “getting dirty”. In particular, No 3A SD is worn for public engagement. I would absolutely expect my cadets to have neatly pressed their trousers and cleaned their boots before such an event.
I’m not bothered what the fieldcraft types do in the field… But when DPM/MTP is being worn for activities not in the field then I expect it be maintained and prepared just like any other uniform.
With that in mind, if we are parading in No 3 one evening then I will inspect the cadets just as I do in blues because they need to view it as simply a different mode of uniform and not “scruff order”.
I will also score it because there will be those who put the effort in and deserve the recognition.
The standard required may be different than in blues, but the principal of taking care of uniform and ensuring that one is presentable, is not.
We’re talking about boots.
You’ve completely missed the point - we’re not talking about “shiny” boots. It’s cared for and serviceable boots. And there are no creases in mtp.
And yeah, it does have an impact. How about you allow a cadet onto a training area or large command task in unsuitable or unserviceable boots and then you can answer to the enquiry after they get injured.
Or you could let your cadets on a volunteering event looking like sacks of spuds…
I’m not going to be as gentle as wdimagineer2b… Why don’t you “get a grip” on the fact we have a responsibility to make sure are cadets are safely and suitably attired for the activity?
Why don’t you “get a grip” on the reality that No3 uniform isn’t just a pair of scraps that you put on when painting or in the garden?
I will ALWAYS do a boot and lace check before fieldcraft training. And I do a boot and lace check in the morning to ensure that they have correctly adminned themselves - so there’s another impact on the outcome of the training - and correctly refitted the boot’s. Same as I might do a foot check.
And I would not be happy with any cadet or member of staff at an event who has not put the effort in to show the Sqn off as well as possible - including clean boots.
HOWEVER. OP’s situation is slightly different. Prepped as best as possible would be sharpie the grey and brush polish the entirety and that would look good enough to stand up to standard scrutiny. They’re correct style so little problem there, but I would be seeing if I could find them something better.
You realise that an inspection isn’t just about the “quality of a cadet’s creases”, right?
If a cadet can’t maintain their DPM/MTP (along with mess tins, webbing, etc) kit in a clean and serviceable state at home or on camp, what chance do they have of keeping it in a decent state in the field?
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You can almost hear the howls of indignant outrage
- “how dare someone try to be pragmatic? The purpose of this organisation is to suck the fun out of life!”
Going back to the original post and my opinion; remember, we’re talking about a parade night and not some pseudo military “command task” - if you genuinely believe that the effectiveness of your training delivery and a cadet’s ability to assimilate it is improved by inspecting and marking their cabbage patch uniform beforehand, then good luck to you. The reality is that inspecting and marking non-issue cabbage patch uniform is clearly causing unnecessary stress for some cadets - I think that’s a bad thing, if you think it’s a good thing then, as I’ve already said, good luck to you.
Finally (and obviously) if the planned activity is “how to wear and maintain your cabbage patch uniform” then go ahead and inspect and mark to your heart’s content - but after you’ve delivered the training.
By that logic then there’s no point in inspecting blues either…
A parade night isn’t a parade and an inspection could cause stress. Creases in trousers don’t affect how well a cadet can perform aircraft recognition.
In this instance, UNFAIR judgement of uniform is what is causing the stress and we have all agreed the standards being applied aren’t correct here and offered advice to the cadet.
You, however, have admonished those who feel it is suitable in a uniformed organisation to uphold the uniform regulations and given justification for why they exist.
“skills useful in both military and civilian life” applies to uniform upkeep and also in being able to overcome problems and stand up for yourself to address issues when they arise. Inspections have a training outcome and therefore are relevant to effectiveness of training generally.
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I think this has run its course and should be closed.
What utter drivel!
A cadet has come here asking for advice because they’re worried they’ll be marked down in an inspection.
Our advice has been “polish your boots and you’ll be fine”.
Your advice seems to be “No cadet should ever have to worry about making themselves presentable in No3 uniform”
Which advice do you think has better prepared the cadet?
Perhaps you’ve joined the wrong organization? This one has uniforms which have to be cared for, as an accepted part of the training.
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