Do you think the RAF will permit VGSs to follow the same route - or will we still have to wait until 16?
Personally, I think it’d be great to have such success at 14 - but I don’t think it’s one for us to pursue. It begs the question “what next?” - and with the potential to complete the GS with only a years service under your belt with the ACO, it’s a long wait to the illusive Flying Scholarships, where would the next challenge come from???
Thoughts welcome!
Oh - and congratulations to Callum! An excellent achievement! And well done to Windrushers at Bicester for their forward thinking in facilitating such a great success!
Initially it would probably make no difference as the waiting list would become much larger so they will probably be 15 at least before they actually got to do it. However when doing the gliding scholarship when you are expected to help out with strapping GIC cadets in and guiding them away from the shiny spinning things, I’m not sure some of the 14 year old cadets on our squadron should really be trusted with that at the moment as otherwise there might be a bit of a mess to clear up.
The oppurtunity being there though I think would make gliding even more popular with the cadets as already GIC flights happen more regularly and is a far more relaxed atmoshpere than going for an AEF also it normally is there first ever time flying in light aircraft. If they could then continue this on to a GS they would probably enjoy it even more. But what to do afterwards is tricky as obviously finishing the gliding within 2 or 3 years of being a cadet then puts your potential flying down to almost zip, unless you get a flying scholarship.
An additional course, not the AGS as this takes more time from the VGS but an alternate lower hour but still something to expand into once they have more experience as a cadet so put the age limit so they have to stay until they are likely to stay for a longer period that would help the cadets instead of going gliding and then saying I’m bored but enough that they can look to the future and say yeah I want to do my flying sholarship and more gliding but I can only do it once I have done these things they will probably be more keen to do it. Or put simply make them work for an extra course, the GS helps to be able to teach subjects though and if they did their GS and then had to do a qualification which was related it would be far easier to explain than looking at ACPs.
Op Nimrod, The GS is meant to be Vigilant 8 Hours (extra 20% allowed for further training to solo standard) & Viking 40 Launches. Typically, in summer, a course will take 3 weekends to complete. (Taken from raf.mod.uk/aircadets) Why not except for the waiting list they will proably be quicker learners as they are younger and in some schools might not be yet thinking about GCSEs and the like.
The MOD is so risk averse these days (just look at the changes to Air Experience Flying since 2009), that there’s not a hope of it happening. Certainly the “Daily Mail factor” should anything ever go wrong is not worth thinking about.
One could argue that is a very good thing if VGS solo remains at 16. Much as the achievement is a very great one, soloing at 14, it’s possibly yet another EASA regulation that we might not have wanted in the UK. The physical and mental difference in maturity between 14 can 16 year olds can be great, as I’m sure most people connected with the ATC are aware. Although the former probably matters little, the latter, certainly does.
I saw this on the news yesterday and my thoughts were there’s an interesting one for the ACO. They don’t let cadets legally entitled, to “have a beer”, so they’d hardly be falling over themselves to do this.
I think the training/assurance level for 14 is much higher than 16. I doubt the ACO would be able to get that many sorties per person to make it viable. What’s the motive for the ACO to change the age limit? We have a decent progression element already. I’d also be a bit more concerned putting someone on a train for 150 miles aged 13 than someone at 15.
Congratulations to the lad, though one has to question if the majority of 14 year olds are mature enough to be let loose by themselves…let alone in a glider.
My dad had his apprenticeship indentures signed when he was 14 and started when he was 15 and 6 weeks, and because it was at the start of the war, within 18 months he was doing and getting paid to do a man’s job because all the older blokes were called up. My grandad was 13 when he started work and both of my nans were in service by the time they were 12. So, not mature at 14? Only by modern society’s exceptionally low standards, that you seem to be in agreement with.
I very much doubt there would be any will within the ACO to change, to much like hard work that can’t be covered by some administrative process designed to hinder. Like so many ACO rules that are age bound by the ACO and not the real world, I would love to see someone challenge them as under the Equality Act I bet they are on dodgy ground. I wonder what, unless it’s an insurance issue (which isn’t really a defence), their defence would be for not allowing a 14 year old to undertake a GS, if challenged.
:ohmy: Like I said the MAJORITY of 14 year olds. Yes, 14 year olds in years gone by went to work, my own father amongst them, he held down 3 part-time jobs at the age of 14 to help support a struggling family, and was serving in the forces at 16 etc etc. But name me a handful of youngsters like that nowadays, there are some but they are few and far between. Society is completely different to how it was in those times.
We aren’t going to name names are we.
Our forebears were in the majority and who’s to say that they were actually mature enough, afterall they were the age they were.
The only reason they are regarded as few and far between now is because society dictates that now they aren’t able, but society isn’t that different, only the perceived view is. I bet that if the rules changed around employment, 14 year olds would be out there doing it.
But as we don’t have the capacity in the jobs market then it ain’t gonna happen.
But we do have the capacity in the ACO for GS from 14.
I wasn’t actually expecting you to give me a list of names was I? :ohmy:
Mental maturity is a thing of social conditioning not age, a 14 year old many moons ago where there was a necessity to display maturity at that age may well have had maturity comparable to a 20/21 year old nowadays. I’m not saying its their fault, but as society expects less and less of the youth of today they are required less and less to display maturity beyond their years.
Aviation can be a dangerous game, and IIRC (its a while since I did gliding with cadets) cadets on their GS are given a fair bit of responsibility with regards to the operation of the gliders, strapping people in, guiding them around the manoeuvring area whilst other a/c are operating. Can you honestly tell me you’d trust the majority of your 14 year old cadets to do this? Yes there will be exceptions to the rule before anyone says it…
The defence would simply be that they choose not to and that the rules for their scholarship do not permit it.
Because this is a gift and not something which the cadet is paying for they are not being deprived of an entitlement and there can be no case to answer.
The average 16 year old will be a more capable student than a 14 year old then there will be an associated financial benefit to delaying the GS until 16 (though to be honest the 14 year old will be more likely to attend the course as they will have fewer exams and weekend jobs to get in the way.)
There is also the question of pacing: having the GS available almost as soon as they walk through the door does nothing to provide a goal for them to aim towards and the staged approach of GICs then GS would be almost out of the window. To counter that, putting cadets in my wing on the GS waiting list at 14 would give them a chance of actually being offered a GS they can actually attend before they time out at 20.
Perhaps they could use some aef funding that turns kids upside down and shows them Ironbridge / St. Andrews golf course / old airfields / cadets own house, could be used as a form of GS Lite, where cadets are trained to solo standard and ghost solo… Then aged 16 they could use what is now GS to refresh, proper solo, and God forbid do some nav work (for those with vigis) as a lead in to flying scholarships?
Increased Risk to Life of a minor. Simple.[/quote]
16 year olds are minors in the eyes of the law.[/quote]
Hence my us of italics for the word “increased” . It is the increase in risk that could be cited. 16 year olds may still be minors (and can start doing more “adult” things as they hit 16), but again, the perception between 14 and 16 old taking on such a responsibility is great.
40,000 Air Cadets… give or take.
1,250 Gliding Scholarships a year… give or take.
I’ll leave the maths up to everyone else, along with the decision of how to thin the herd, but I’d hazard a guess that the average 16yr old cadet will be more mature and better trained than the average 14yr old cadet, which means that they’ll stand a better chance of completing the course successfully. The chances are that they’ve also had time to prove themselves to their CO, who must still attest that the cadet is capable and worthy of being awarded a place.
