Gliding "paused"

Everyone Flying
141

Eminently sensible.
Speaking to the people I know in the VGS world, they have real problems when it comes to all matters relating to maintence; gliders and vehicles.
If these were managed via non-military contract you set up the SLAs and away you go.

As we are currently and historically coming under the military, you get a real sense we fall foul of being at the bottom of the pile, military process and at the whim / fancy of cuts. I think we need to flex a little bit of commercial muscle (there are any number of civvie contractors already) and realise that our glider fleet and associated equipment is big and has the potential to be better serviced, by not using anything related to the MoD.

If our gliding operation was a civilian one with paying customers, having the fleet out of service for a tenth of the time ours has thus far, would mean no business. I think the cadets have suffered because it is essentially a military operation and there is no remit to be expedient in doing anything. If this had been a commercial operation, then a phased reintroduction would have been negotiated, it would have been expensive potentially, but that way each VGS could have been operational for keeping pilots current if nothing else. Whereas now the pilots must all effectively need re-training and then honing flying skills and the longer this drags on the worse that situation will get, which will mean that the cadets will suffer even more. One of my mates with a rotary PPL has to fly at least once a month or as he says you lose some of the skills.

I imagine it will be drinks all round in the Mess IF this comes in anywhere near on time, regardless of the longer lasting effect detrimental effect it would have had on the ACO. How many cadets who have joined in the last 18-24 months will get a chance to fly in a glider? If anyone at HQAC wishes to consider this and think what has happened thus far is OK, well …

142

there is little argument to that GHE2, the delay is unacceptable and in any other environment would have ruined a business.

of course if this was a civilian serviced outfit the situation would never have occurred.

it is a real shame (putting it lightly) thet athe opportunities for the Cadets have been lost.
for us at least we’re 6 miles from our local VGS and have successfully picked up “lost” places very last minute so get more places than most so have certainly noticed the effect across the unit when asking who has not flown yet…

143

GLIDER UPDATE - 28 April 15

I thought it would be appropriate to bring you up to date with the activity on going at RAF Syerston. We continue to fly Vigilant ac 206. All my instructors have completed their Flying Ability Test and are now progressing onto their instructional standardisation check. Two more ac are planned for delivery by the end of May. All good precursors for a return to cadet and instructor flying.

Safety of cadets and adults remain my top priority but MOD intends to trial the recovery of 6 Vikings thru an external contractor, an activity to be endorsed by the Military Aviation Authority. If successful a competition will be run to recovery the remaining Vikings. Our aim is to return Vikings back to flight and have 60 Vikings flying by Christmas. This action will allow Syerston engineers to concentrate on Vigilant recovery and forward maintenance. It is our intent to have recovered 45 approx Vigilants by 1 April 16.

This acceleration of ac delivery is a very positive move and hopefully we should have a mixed fleet of 105 ac by April 16. On current assumptions I am confident we will recover significant gliding as we venture into the 75 anniversary of the ACO. The remaining ac will be recovered in due course. I stress all this activity is with good intent. There will be challenges and timelines may slip a little but the direction of travel has full AOC & Comdt Air Cadets commitment. Both have the aim to accelerate the delivery of airframes quickly but safely and then subsequently move into the skill fade recovery program for the VGS instructors. Best guess on current planning as airframes are delivered I see some cadet flying taking place at limited locations in early Summer building up as we progress throughout the year.

I do remind you however, we have only allocated 32 of the 100 scholarships provided from the GPF. I advise you to speak to your RGO to get further details on availability. We are also working hard to complete Voyager flights and 18 cadets flew last week. More sorties are planned in May but be aware they are subject to operational requirements. Being responsible to the Commandant for gliding I am in a very upbeat mood that gliding will soon be back on the air cadet agenda.

Regards

OC2FTS

144

Hmmm, don’t think that came our way - after a comprehensive (& futile search!) on Sharepoint***, have messaged our RGO, but if anyone has any details, they would be much appreciated! :wink:

*** whilst searching for “gliding” the search threw up the latest version of AP1358c - very useful - not!!

EDIT - just had a little chat…

It would seem that each region has been allocated an RAFGSA site. However, with regard to the GSA rules, any cadet/student under 18 would have to be accompanied by an adult (parent or member of staff). Of course, cadet attendance would have to be more or less guaranteed in order for a scholarship to be allocated. Maximum of 2 cadets at one time, Sat/ & Sun flying.

So, linking travelling distance, cadet + adult availability, & looking for Spring/Summer educational priorities such as school studies & associated exams, no wonder there hasn’t been a big take-up. Looking at our Region’s allocated GSA location, I can’t really see any of our cadets being able to consider this. The only real possibility would be for 18 yr old cadets with their own car.

As to Voyager flying, whilst there was one actual flight with cadets, it would seem that there were also 4 very short-notice cancellations, after all the hard work had been done by the Wg GLOs, & staff taking time off work to drive mini-buses mid-week, etc.

So, as far as I can see it, perhaps nice “PR” from OC2FTS, but the reality is somewhat different.

Back to the gliding & aircraft “fix” - again, I have to state my amazement about the timescale of checking/certifying basic airframes!

145

So it’s been a year since this thread started, and we have 1 aircraft…not to mention the time before that with pauses (including the tutor fleet).

I am appalled, dismayed, angry, disheartened, thoroughly fed up and running out of words to describe this farce.

146

The worst part is that a return to previous levels of service (perhaps) or 105 aircraft is not expected until next April, that will be 2 year pause. Given the average cadet stays for 18 months, the average cadet will never have been given the opportunity to go gliding.

147

The average cadet up here didn’t get the opportunity to go gliding even when we had airworthy gliders!

148

Appalling doesn’t come close, I know they’ll cite safety etc etc etc, but the fact that as said a year on and he seems quite bouyed at the fact we are looking at another year minimum shows the bloke lke the rest of our lords/ladies haven’t got the first clue as to why the majority youngsters are lured to the ACO. They don’t join to do FMS, bag packing, first aid etc etc they join to fly in aircraft and get a hands on experience. If the high and mighty truly understood this they might have forced the people doing the work on the gliders to get their fingers out. But the forces are widely known for extreme tardiness / failure to deliver when it comes to projects and “project creep” and does this ever smack of these characteristics. I’ve seen managers at work “take opportunities outside the business” when they have failed to a lesser extent than like this bloke has. And he has failed only able to come up with lame, limp excuses.
I’ve had parents ask me when their sons/daughters are lkely to fly and said I honestly don’t know. I’ve got 4 slots for flying next month which are going to 4 of the 7 that should have gone on the last two details that haven’t happened, of course notwithstanding any last minute call off for any number of reasons (excluding weather), which if it happens will be another few months before we get another one.

What this should have said is it’s going to take a lot longer than we first anticipated. Therefore we have been in contact with civilian gliding clubs and assigned ATC instructors to these for the purpose of cadet gliding and you will be contacted soon with details. I know this would require some extraordinary thinking ‘outside the box’, but for the life of me I can’t see why this can’t happen and just do famil gliding. It would also ensure that the ATC’s gliding instructors keep their flyng skills fresh and more importantly we become as Ronseal.

I ran out of ways of trying to find positive on this last year, especially in light of the problems we’ve had with powered flying before and since this. When you have parents ask what’s going on and all you can do is shrug your shoulders, it’s not a good feeling. At my last intake I went through the usual blurb and then said exactly what the situation was with flying inc gliding. Five of the 11 didn’t come back and a further two look like leaving as it’s not for them.

149

My bold.
My understanding is that by doing that you’re crossing from the MAA (Military Aviation Authority) to the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) and a lot would be down to legislation and internal politics.
To have ATC/VGS Instructors take on cadets in Gliding club a/c would also require the correct insurance - and usually that would be covered through membership of said club.

In an ideal world though, this would be a good alternative and yes it should happen. But yet again this is something that the ‘almighty Lord’ up there haven’t explained to us mere mortals…

150

My bold.
My understanding is that by doing that you’re crossing from the MAA (Military Aviation Authority) to the CAA (Civil Aviation Authority) and a lot would be down to legislation and internal politics.
To have ATC/VGS Instructors take on cadets in Gliding club a/c would also require the correct insurance - and usually that would be covered through membership of said club.

In an ideal world though, this would be a good alternative and yes it should happen. But yet again this is something that the ‘almighty Lord’ up there haven’t explained to us mere mortals…[/quote]
If the will is there nothing is insurmountable. The problem is no one could even come close to saying how long this grounding (let’s give it it’s proper title) will last, if they could then a temporary arrangement could be reached, regardless of the politics and legislation. I would have thought the military aspect is pretty thin anyway.

The single biggest problem is the need for some problem solving and outside the box thinking. It is ironic that people make a lot of VR(T) going through OASC as it is supposed to identify strengths in terms of thinking, problem solving, determination to overcome obstacles etc and make the VR(T) better officers, yet none of the ex-regular officer cadre within HQAC seem to display these traits.
So if the insurance is a problem, come to some arrangement on a group insurance.

151

I agree with what you’re saying GHE2, but how could group insurance work if they are mostly-independent gliding clubs/schools?

152

I agree with what you’re saying GHE2, but how could group insurance work if they are mostly-independent gliding clubs/schools?[/quote]
You could do it on a Wing basis with each respective gliding school or if things are split across Wings do it on a Wing / sector basis. It’s only administrative and we have plenty of salaried administrators.
If they wanted to do it, it would happen.

153

Until the ACTO & linked edicts came out that said “Under pain of a horrible death, thou shalt NOT commit any aviation at civilian gliding clubs under any link to the ACO whatsoever,” we had investigated the possibility of one of the VGI qualified pilots to be checked out at a local gliding club in order for us to hire a glider by the day. There would have been discount for launches (or a motor glider at (£15 per £20 mins) & (IIRC) a basic bulk “youth” membership for the day.

With a quick grant from CivCom + perhaps a small contribution from the cadets, it wouldn’t have been free, but still very good value.

I could have built a kit aircraft in my garage in the time this palaver has been going on (just in my spare time, never mind as a full time project!), had it certified & flown it. Yet the mighty RAF & ACO cannot get even a handful of (previously “serviceable”) aircraft flying…

154

Edited as clearly I touched a nerve. All will be revealed in due course. Or via the Facebook thread if you venture there.

155

Er, whining about a core activity? Let’s scrap all the flying, much easier for all & sundry & call ourselves the GCO - Grounded Cadet Organisation.

Please come up with practical solutions/answers instead of quoting “I’ve got a secret that you don’t know, so there.”

Group insurance wouldn’t be needed if HQACO/OC2FTS would relax the “no gliding with anyone else” mantra. No-one is suggesting that cadets would go gliding with unqualified, uninsured private individuals; there are numerous BGA clubs that could be looked at. Even on a daily or short-term basis arrangement, an inject of funds from the ACO contingency fund would go a long way to DO SOMETHING!! How much has been saved by VGS not flying…?

Prices, even for “trial lessons,” are very reasonable, for example. As I suggested earlier, using a BGA aircraft + VGS “cleared” instructor would be easy to coordinate - but not with the intransigence being shown from above.

Thank goodness that we are not talking about a commercial venture here. An airline (flying complex aircraft) would have had to work out a solution in days (if not hours), to be approved by the CAA, implement it & get airframes flying soonest - or go bust; safety for them is of paramount importance too. Notwithstanding any MAA complications or other difficulties, the timescale to achieve almost nothing within the ACO fleet (very basic aircraft) is staggering.

156

Don’t post stupid things like that. Either tell us or shut up.

157

At the risk of sounding like even more of an old warhorse than I actually am, but I remember a time when one squadron had an arrangement with their local flying school whereby a small number of cadets were given flights in return for cleaning their aircraft.

With the MoD penchant for encouraging tenders from private providers from stores right up to aircraft in the case of the Tutor, one has to wonder why there is such resistance to embracing civilian gliding facilities like this - particularly as in the main these are “proper” gliders. I seem to remember Air Britain organising “struts” a few years back whereby relationships were built up between Sqns and local flying clubs to provide opportunity flights subject to all the usual clearances.

158

Probably in the days before people were looking to keep their jobs and or make themselves seem more important and the all encompassinh H&S BS that blights us. Plus people running the ATC/ACO thought bloody good show, initiative and all that.
I knew a chap (on of my nan’s neighbours) who was a cadet on my old squadron during WW2. He regalled me with stories of going to the local airfield and do all manner of things that would make HQAC’s sphincter twitch excitedly today. I’ve had similar tales from my uncle and other cadets of the period.

Just imagine if they’d assigned ATC gliding instructors to gliding clubs with the express remit of flying cadets and it would have undoubtedly worked. There may have been cause to bin the Corps’ whole gliding set up.

159

THis is the problem: the duty holder construct doesn’t (necessarily) result in higher safety standards, just more defensive ones. And as I’m about to become a Duty Holder I’m probably going to feel the need to do the same myself. I’m trying to work out how to word a Safety Directive in the minimum number of words; (serious) suggestions welcome.

160

We had a provisional plan, with approximate (very reasonable) costings, for a VGS pilot to be checked out at a local gliding centre & then take cadets up.

Wallop, along came the provisions of the ACTO, thou shalt not organise any flying anywhere else, & killed off the plan.