Gliding "paused"


Ah, apparently there is a 2FTS “review” of ACTO35, which has placed a freeze on all new applications.

Best guess is for this to be complete by end of Aug 2017…

I sincerely hope that things are made easier, not harder, with a “blanket” approval of specific regional GSA centres, but still permitting the flexibility of “ad-hoc” locations.

Hey, it’s only a “pause” - no need to be worried… :angry:


It must be the longest “pause” in NATO…only 3 years or so, isn’t it?..


If Cmdt 2FTS & the ODH (AOC 22 Gp) let things slip through their grasp any more, there won’t be a need for ACTO35, as there will be too few cadets to actually go flying.

If they really need to, the only practical thing that they could limit is as per AEF pilots, maximum age of pilots for “flying in non-Service aircraft” to be 65. Otherwise, if the organisation is CAA- or UK GSA-approved, hands off. Scrap the over-bearing administration & help CFAVs get cadets flying - something that 2FTS have singularly failed to do (other than at isolated flag-ship events).

Interesting FoI action.

I am a Fellow of the Royal Aeronautical Society, and am conducting private research into the circumstances and train of events surrounding the airworthiness issues that led to the ‘pause’ in flying of the Air Training Corps aircraft fleet from April 2014 onwards.


There already is a set of specific limits on the pilots. Number of hours/launches, age etc.


I know - I have already actioned several powered flying / gliding opportunities via ACTO35.

What I am saying is that if the facility is approved (CAA / GSA), that should be sufficient.

EDIT - oh, hopefully I was instrumental in getting them to add gliding as well as to accept “composite” lists rather than one for Cadet A + Aircraft A + Pilot A; ah, if Aircraft A has a technical issue on the day of flight, then requirement to have paperwork for Cadet A + Aircraft B + Pilot A - ah, but if Pilot A is ill on the day, then need to have… It would have been one form, per cadet per possible aircraft combinations, per possible instructor combinations. Three cadets with 3 aircraft & 3 pilots would have been 3 x 3 x 3 forms - 27!!! That hadn’t really been thought through very well! :wink:


Via FOI request elsewhere, doesn’t make for good reading in places:


I tired putting this document through google translate but it came back with language not recognised???


Yes I don’t really understand any of it, other than it looks like the MAA getting a bit cross at 2FTS for being slow?


It showed that in some areas there was a marked lack of response to earlier MAA inputs. Not very impressive.

What is needed is the comparable report (if there is one) to show current status of the various action items.


I wonder if the US Navy have been taking lessons off OC 2FTS. Let’s hope not… they might be needed more urgently than our glider fleet!!!


So… the US Navy fired the head of the fleet after their pause… #awkward


Somewhat different - “multiple” collisions & associated fatalities.

Gliding “pause” = no gliding - ergo, no nothing! :wink:


Yep, for the past three years the ACO has run the safest gliding organisation in the World.


…& will continue to be so for the unknown future.

Apparently, this week, at High Wycombe, a high level briefing / meeting was chaired by AOC 22 Gp & attended by Cmdt RAFAC, Cmdt 2FTS / all RAFAC Reg Cmdts, to decide the direction of ALL cadet aviation- not just flights in non-Service aircraft (powered or gliders).


The blind leading the blind then.

It will be interesting to know the outcome of that chat. Let’s hope and pray they don’t decide to give an RC the job of leading a working party … a definite taxiway to nowhere.


Fingers crossed it wouldn’t be a working party - but delegating the responsibility to RCs wouldn’t be a bad outcome.

RC’s could lead on non-service aircraft flying within their regions. 2FTS are already crying that there are “too many BGA clubs for them to “inspect” and “ensure compliance””. Why do they need to inspect them? Are they not already regulated - why does he want to meddle with their processes? Why do 2FTS need oversight of non-RAF flying anyway? Shrink OC2FTS’s empire - let him focus on his pet (risk-adverse) simulators and getting the gliders back in the air.

Instead, set aside BGA clubs and other non-service aircraft, treat them as external providers like we do any other activity (White Water Rafting, Climbing walls, CSPA shooting, rides in fire engines, Go Carting, Going to the cinema). Squadron staff are responsible for collating evidence for external providers they propose to use, collecting moneys and providing “staff cover”; Wing/Region then authorize the event having checked compliance against a check list. Why does 2FTS actually have to get involved? It could be Wg/Rg Flying/Gliding Liaison Officers role - Duty Holder could sit with RCs - as it does with AT, despite the fact that few RCs are AT qualified.

I’d like to think that AOC 22Gp saw sense this week… But a recent post about him I saw on LinkedIn did make me question whether “seeing sense” was one of his skills on his personal profile.


C&E were already well down the path with that - I attended a meeting for this purpose at Cambridge Gliding Club back in late Spring. Other locations were more or less “approved” I think.


Sorry to be picky, but there is no such thing as a RAFAC Regional Comdt. They are ATC Regional Comdt and nothing to do with the CCF.


For now…:smiling_imp:


Historically delegating things to RCs ends up with one outcome … lots of meetings for their little group etc and no result.
It seems from speaking to people who have been involved in things at Cranwell, meetings happen and it things are a bit difficult they file it or it gets discussed at ACMB and other meetings and left as pending to the point where people have forgotten what they were supposed to be doing or have moved on to other things and no longer of interest.

As for the compliance why can’t this be done at Region or Corps level and someone tasked like the H&S or TSA with getting all of the paperwork, keeping it up to date. This could be extended to providing us with a list of approved suppliers (local and national) who we select with none of the aggro of getting their insurance, AALA, instructor qualifications and putting it onto a PIPE. So if you planned a weekend somewhere and wanted other activities how much easier it would make it.