Gliding "paused"


You can’t give me figures can you? In that case there’s no sound argument until some hard data backs up suppositions. We could conjecture until the cows come home, but it would just be an unfair battle of wits against daily mail headlines and cold hard reality. Merry Christmas.


Numbers mean nothing except financial. I spent a large part of my previous working life shuffling and presenting numbers, so show me some numbers and I know it is meaningless. The MOD have thrown millions at the gliding and getting no return, apart from rhetoric. As one of my nans used to say - fine words butter no parsnips.

Shouldn’t we celebrate the fact that cadets who can’t get air training through the Air Training Corps are getting it and achieving things through their own endeavour and initiative? Just a pity the people running the organisation don’t have the same sort of drive. We bang on about initiative and getting cadets to show it and when they do, some just seek to do them down. We’ve got a lot of cadets doing DofE elements outside the ATC by finding their own things. These cadets mentioned will have gliding as a DofE skill and may be even volunteering, win win.


Considering the lack of ACO gliding scholarships over what is the longest “pause” in history, it has to be 100% in favour of BGA, regardless of the actual numbers involved. Why on earth didn’t 2FTS link up with BGA from the outset of the problem? Sorry, I know the answer, not good for a career…


100%? You must be in a mince pie stupor. AEF has continued. Scholarships have continued. People who don’t get much exposure to flying still become RAF pilots.

Yet another red tip headline to grab people’s attention, whip up frenzy by the masses but with little to substantiate it. Merry Christmas.


[quote=“MikeJenvey, post:1303, topic:1152, full:true”]Why on earth didn’t 2FTS link up with BGA from the outset of the problem? Sorry, I know the answer, not good for a career…

Whose career? Most of the 2FTS and HQAC hierarchy (including both Comdts) are FTRS or CS (some wearing uniform are they not, bar a tiny smattering of regulars?:slight_smile:


There are still thousands of cadets in 5 AEFs area that haven’t had proper AEF delivery for the best part of 2 years.

But for many years cadets needed to have a GS in order to access an FS, (how many photos of prize winners Dacre Sword/Brooch etc show both badges) essentially as I was told at a COs meeting many years ago, so the powers that be could minimise the risk of failure. While I could understand this to a degree I didn’t think it was particularly fair given the limited number of GS coupled with an individual’s ability to attend a GS. I’ve never understood the educational requirement for FS either, other than to restrict the number of applicants.

This has been the case for many years, so is hardly news. But those who do become RAF pilots don’t or haven’t, necessarily needed to be in the ATC. We seem to be hanging on to the ATC is a path to the RAF in the same way someone would hang onto a rope to save themselves.


The argument over how the ATC and UAS are used as recruitment tools is always brought up. There has to be a wider scope though of broadening the knowledge and recognition of the RAF, which is where the ATC and the UASs come in not just as pool to recruit from.


No mince pie stupor… then or now.

Yes, to a very limited degree, gliding scholarships continued. However, the numbers were drastically reduced, based on the gliding being carried out at RAFGSA sites. Major logistical & admin issues were not addressed - the considerable distance that most cadets would have to travel for their successive weekends, & the huge “gotcha” of having to be accompanied by a CFAV or “guardian” as no DBS was in place for the RAFGSA instructors. Consequently, there were pointed comments from on high stating that the take-up had been poor.

Encompassing BGA from the outset would have drastically enhanced the number of successful gliding scholarships.

Not at all - 2 years ago, at our annual presentations, the guest speaker (serving AVM), quoted numbers for the Services that showed very high percentages of officers (across all 3 Services) were ex-ATC; Can’t remember the exact numbers quoted, but for the RAF, it was over 50% - & even higher for the Army! :wink: Earlier this year, I took the time to drop in for a long chat at our local RAF CIO; they were emphatic that time in the ATC is invaluable & highly regarded.


Interesting that I was never asked to nominate any CCF cadets for the scholarships via RAFGSA.

It would be invidious to speculate why.


A curious person would ask up the CoC - why?

An even more curious person would ask what are the prospects of a similar scheme for 2017…?? :wink:


Temporary solution for the Welsh??


Bring your own food, there is no messing for cadets on the weekend at Saints.


I’m assuming if they’re intending to detach gliders, that someone will be making arrangements to ensure there is! :slight_smile:


Be careful. That kind of forward thinking attitude could see you getting promoted.


Forward thinking … remember this is the ATC/RAF/MoD.


Not in this organisation it won’t…sir :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


MikeJenvey I’ve asked but the person I asked has now retired - and didn’t really reply before he went…

But moves are afoot for better CCF representation at the top level in the ACO so I hope this sort of thing will not happen again.


Well…here’s jumping foward a few months using a time machine.

There is an interesting ‘air cadets grounded’ (military aviation) forum on Pprune that seems to throw light onto what exactly has been going on ref the ‘pause’. Quite a few fairly recent entries. It does not paint the senior leadership in a very good light i’m afraid!


[quote=“sypland, post:1318, topic:1152, full:true”] It does not paint the senior leadership in a very good light i’m afraid!
Why would this be a surprise?
This appalling episode has been a disaster in terms of how senior management have handled it since 2014. Yet they’ve been allowed to carry on. They have led a charmed life, given the success they’ve had. I’ve seen local schools have changes of headmaster / mistress if they’ve not ticked the Ofsted boxes, by that token this lot should have been put out to pasture ages ago.


It seems to imply that things started to go wrong at a level far above the air cadets hierarchy . What has happened since the ‘pause’ hasn’t helped. I think a big problem has been a lack of communication with the volunteer staff in general, not just the VGS’s.
Shooting seems to be having a bit of a wobble at the moment, but looks like being able to sort itself out soonish.