The good old FOI, well done that man. I am told it took a few people out of the constructive stuff to look at that. Adding further delay, why don’t you just phone Syerston and ask? I am sure the issue of sensitive commercial contracts would be discussed
It seems the VGS’s differ from region to region, I have to take my hat off to the VGS staff sticking with it as they will be vital in getting it all going no matter how it looks in 2016. I am sure some of us could volunteer to become VGS pilots but adding more training needs would no doubt take flying from the cadets further more.
I see it like this, keep the cadets interested best we can and the VGS will keep their teams in place. In theory Vikings arrive, VGS folk get current then boom cadets get off the ground.
I have popped gliding recovery on my letter to Santa.
I imagine for the same reason as any other FoI request that comes from inside the organisation: Because they expect nothing but a massive fobbing-off from those in charge.
I’ve never put a FoI request into HQAC, but I can understand why people do, and it’s very easily preventable by cascading information properly in the first place.
I think BigSpoon’s name is rather apt. He’s certainly stirring things up amongst the masses who are at the sharp end, having to explain to cadets and their parents exactly [I]why[/I] gliding isn’t happening.
It sounds very much like he’s in the know (a la Sgt Bilko) and isn’t sharing much other than words to wind people up or he’s a very optimistic crystal-ball gazer.
he’s either on crack, or he’s some gimps sock puppet trying - and failing - to replicate the Kremlin troll operations ‘i’m just a simple Russian housewife, i don’t know much about politics…’
much i’m not a fan of Sgt Bilko, i take the view that he’s actually rather bright - and coming across as thick as the stirrer is a skill very few bright people can manage…
so the stirrer being a sockpuppet of someone at HQAC/2FTS fits rather well.
Gets my vote, became a new user around the time of the “Expert” meme. Everyone has to join sometime, but the timing & the comments (no need to moan) aren’t too subtle.
I am just having fun with the moaners, I feel the pain almost like I know cadets too, most now have forgotten all about gliding as its never been on the programme since they joined
I am not sure what a troll is? I just hear all the negativity around the wing and thought I would take a look. The issue is nobody on here knows what is going on, including me. Lets just wait out and as my CGI says things seem to be moving at last, be it slowly but surely.
thing is, thats not true at all.we know exactly what happened - theres a good thread on Pprune, as well as this one if you want the technical version from people who really understand airworthiness and how airworthiness and the RAF parted company and have been forced, post the catastrophic loss - with 14 lives - of Nimrod XV230, to find each other again.
what happened* after* the pause is not a mystery, it does however revolve around a rather salty version of ‘not much’. they spent some 14 months devising a plan that was submitted to CAS for approval. CAS returned it within days with a big red line through it with ‘more effort required’ scrawled across the front.
people who had no understanding of gliding or airworthiness contracted a company that had no understanding of gliding or airworthiness to manage the airworthiness of the gliding fleet. they then compounded that by making no checks during the contract to see that what was specified - badly - in the contract was actually done. when it all blew up they then appointed the same company to provide the solution.
Yes the PPRUNE thread… Id take a lot of stuff discussed on there with an air of caution as if suggest the majority of the forum fulfil neither of the P’s in its name…
I was discussing this issue with my wife yesterday, and we both came to the same conclusion. It’s a sad state of affairs but at the end of the day as I’ve said before AOC 22 is getting asked a lot. He would be asked to sign off on the experience level of the staff. Before the pause there were a lot of experienced people flying gliders, but they weren’t professional aircrew. I know it’s hard to swallow but in the modern age of litigation I would be cautious to sign it off and not just use all the money to recruit a few extra QSP’s/QFI/CPL level qualified people on an FTRS contract and get the under-utilised UAS aircraft flying more.
That way kids get flying with pilots who have passed a rigorous selection and have all passed literally hundreds of assessed trips that are examined by outside agencies. They all hold a valid and instrument rating, they’ve all flown far more complex aircraft in far tougher conditions. In the time I flew at a VGS the best pilots I flew with were either QSP’s or one of the ATPL level people we had. Neither were A2 but even with a very limited experience behind me I could tell they were more proficient.
I’d also say as an aside some one above said that there has been no practical flying training provided to the services. Gliding and AEF don’t provide any useful flying training to guys wandering through the doors at anything beyond your first 5 or so EFT trips, aside from being used to being in an aeroplane. Just look at the number of guys that go from UAS and get chopped at Linton/valley and end up driving a voyager. Their actual potential is masked somewhat.
The meme whilst amusing I’d suggest if it came from a uniformed member of staff is unacceptable. If it was a VR(T) officer its wholly unacceptable and to be honest probably in breach of the service test…
As a matter of interest have any of you tried getting in contact with your local flying station? We regularly can accommodate cadet or uni visits and in 90% of those visits people get in a sim on the controls and or get in an aircraft tooling about at low level. The 10% is serviceability related. Having flown kids in VGS AEF and front line types the latter gets the best reaction. It’s probably my favourite part of my job. The look on their faces if we are at 100ft with walkers waving down at us, or them taking a picture UP to the observation deck of the shard. Or the lucky few that I’ve taken into a clearing at night on NVG have without exception have wanted to be a crewman or pilot afterwards. Our boss is keen to get links with any local unit as he knows it’s the future of the forces, I’d suggest most are the same.
we ask, don’t you worry - the problem is cadets not being allowed time off from school (we’ve had parents get very snotty and serious letters threatening prosecution…), and the fact that its 2.5 hours from us to the nearest flying station.
a great deal berter than most perhaps, but its still a bloody long way…
No…as long as you have been suitably authed by I believe the squadron CO if I remember correctly. they always want a pretty thorough brief and a carefully chosen route e.g no wires, no CADS conflictions. Sometimes it’ll just be for one leg or for the leg before. Really high risk stuff is off the cards but bear in mind we’d probably never go above 500ft part from when we join te circuit again.
Taking the comments ref airworthiness and suitably qualified staff and senior types supposedly getting twitchy about signing off, the solution is simple …, don’t do it.
Seeking civilian solutions while not out of the question, it seems the civilian gliding community couldn’t cope with the demand, as they don’t have the people or aircraft.
However without flying it what is the AIR TRAINING Corps?
If we take out developing a practical interest in aviation of which sitting in an aircraft is fully instrinsic, what is left in our 3 aims that makes the AIR TRAINING Corps unique enough to attract youngsters? Training for service life is increasingly losing relevance as opportunities to join the services are not anywhere near as abundant as they were, many schools do things to provide ‘soft skills’, you don’t need to be in the ATC to ‘foster the spirit of adventure’ or do community work.
What this balls up has highlighted is the rank amateurishness of the people we have in the ACO heirarchy and the inability (or more like unwillingness) of the RAF machine to resolve the problem. For crying out loud they keep complicated aircraft costing many millions flying, but can’t do this for something as simple by comparison in the form of gliders, it says a huge amount about the actual commitment of the RAF to the ACO, the modern era.
Frankly when you have a problem at work that is outside your area of expertise/knowledge you seek advice/input from people with the appropriate expertise/knowledge … it’s called consultation. When you do this you set a deadline for the process. After this process if it’s something you want to do and it’s going to take too much time or money to get your own people up to speed, you contract someone to do this, it’s called outsourcing. The MoD probably has more things outsourced (civilianised) day to day operations, including complex operations, than it ever has done. Many companies outsource elements of their day to day operation as it provides flexibility. So why once the extent of the problem with the giders was known, why they didn’t get a suitable company in to do the work with a set contract period to sort it out. In the grand scheme of things this is easy-peasy. In my mind if this had been done, it would have tantamunt to OC 2FTS admitting he was out of his depth, however what has happened has shown this more graphically.
Here’s a thought: not everyone in the Royal AIR Force actually fly.
I know it’s a job, but people aren’t attracted to it because of the flying/pay. It’s the sense of duty, ethos, other activities and sense of camaraderie.
Maybe we should think about what people join the ACO for as I know some cadets who don’t want to leave terra firma.
Sorry you have lost me with this statement…
Are you saying the AIR cadets should start to cater more for cadets not interested in flying??
You join the air cadets to fly the rest is additional!
You can do DofE, shooting, camping, camping at any other cadet force or youth organisation but what you don’t do is flying,it’s what sets us a part from the rest.
No, I’m saying the Air Cadets is about more than just flying. Yes it’s supposed to be the main theme, but it’s not the only thing we do. I agre without it we aren’t the Air Cadets, but we do a lot connected with flying as well as actually flying.
I agree with Sgt Bilko, the ACO is about far more than flying, and while sans flying its a bit of a pisstake - particularly given the amount of flying they plaster over the recruitment bumf - flying is only a part, and a small part, of what we do.
That said, for me its an absolute that what flying there is should be shared as equally as is possible amongst all the cadets, not hived off as a specialism that half a dozen cadets per wing get and the rest get squat diddly…
The argument that we should concentrate on flying above all else because you can do DofE or whatever elsewhere is facile, simply because few cadets have the time, and fewer parents have the money, for cadets to be members of the half dozen organisations required to get the whole shebang if each organisation just focuses on its One Big Thing. It would also mean we’d go from being a twice a week, one weekend a month organisation to bring a one night a fortnight, one day every six months organisation. What do we thing recruitment would look like then…?
