I don’t remember any problems relating pilots before the prop problems, flying details happened unless weather was a problem. In fact I remember several times when the weather cleared late on, it was all hands on deck and the pilots would get as many of the cadets up as possible, which suggests there wasn’t any problems as such with a lack of pilots or aircraft. Which is why you have to suspect that the technical problems have resulted in a general getting out of the habit and the knock on problems relating to the age of some pilots, wrt to medicals, regaining and remaining current and for others general availability has been why the problem with lack of pilots has come to pass.
Given what seems to have happened with AEF pilots, you would have thought lessons would have been learned and some more joined up / imaginative thinking around keeping gliding instructors in the habit of flying would have happened during the down time. Anyone who thinks that once the glding fleet is back that all of the old instructors will come back wagging their tails and gliding will resume as was, is either mad or got to say / promise it to keep a job.
Anyone who volunteers for something and gets out of the habit, is unlikely to return and if they do they invariably won’t be the same. This isn’t reflection on the individual but just part of being human.
If you go back two years that brings the whole prop issue into play. Was there the same “manning” issue before the failures?
As for Woodvale, it seems there may be a lot of reasons not to keep it open![/quote]
There are also a lot of reasons to keep it open.
It’s the only AEF in the north west. If Woodvale closed then cadets would have to travel to either cosford or Linton. Both of which struggle for pilots so adding another 4500 cadets to their task would not be achievable.
Woodvale currently has 2 UAS’. Where would they go? I can understand if they would want to merge the 2 but as it stands CaS wants to keep them separate.
611 Aux Sqn has recently opened and is based at WDV. It’s a prime location for them and within easy reach of Altcar training camp.
Can you give your reasons why you think it should close?
The reduction in age limit to 65 for AEF pilots as pushed a lot of guys away.
Many are retired, highly experienced pilots of Senior officer status and have been told they can no longer fly.
Personally I’d rather have my kids fly with an ex Cold War fighter pilot wing commander with 10000 hours than a guy that’s got a PPL and 200 hours in a Cessna 172!
[quote=“Scrounger” post=25321]
Can you give your reasons why you think it should close?[/quote]
I didn’t actually say that I think it should close. I agree with all of your points What I find most admirable after the introduction of the age limit is the number of AEF personnel who still dedicate their time to the AEFs despite not being able to fly (other than as pax). At several sites these guys keep the places running.
It may be due to the fact that they have been a cadet, joined the military and wish to pass on their experiences back to the cadets through the AEFs. We currently have 1 chap who is over 65. He can only fly with UAS student or our pilots but he is an invaluable part of our set up as he is a deputy flight commander,QFI and can do Convex sorties with new pilots he also does check rides with current pilots. Pilots who reach the 65 year age limit are not permitted to continue to fly unless they are a QFI and that is for the purposes above.
I thought it would be timely to update you on activities at RAF Syerston and the outcome from the Glider Workshop.
Vigilant : we continue to work on 3 tracks for recovery. I anticipate a further 2 ac by the first week in Aug (total 4 ). COS will soon be seeking volunteers (Vigilant pilots)to help us deliver some air experience gliding to cadets in the school holidays .Watch this space.
Viking: 6 ac are at Southern Sailplanes and we continue with the plan to recover 6 ac over a period of 3 months ( end of Aug). Work progresses in a steady way. It should not be too long before we have some Viking ac at RAF Syerston. We continue to plan to recover the remaining Vikings by external competition after the trial.
We continue to review and adapt to ensure we will maximise the number of both Vigilant and Viking ac by Christmas. The Op recovery plan remains the same building on the 4 federated sites ( Topcliffe, Kirknewton, Little Rissington and Hullavington or Upavon) then moving onto home base VGSs.
Glider Workshop. I have now digested the output from the workshop and have formed 4 user groups to take the bulk of the work forward. I have attached the breakdown of the groups and their Tors. The WG Chairs should keep you in the loop but you must also check in with the VGS reps on the groups to keep you abreast of developments. I wish the exchange of information to be a 2 way street on an informal basis with a few regular formal updates. The end date for the activity is 1 April 16. As we discussed we have to demonstrate to wider defence we are worthy the investment committed to us. This will involve some change,
I am still waiting the outcome of the DIO basing study and the impact, if any, of the Government Comprehensive Spending Review.
Best you review the plan bloomin’ quickly then - if the numbers quoted are to add to the (couple?) of airframes currently operational, then the plan has failed - spectacularly.
Last time I checked the calendar, the months of Jul & Aug were rapidly approaching, when it would be a great time for VGS pilots to have been refreshed/re-qualified - & then get some cadets into the air!!
I dread to think how long (& how much) it will cost for the “external competition” for the Vikings. These sort of RAF technical tenders can often have a 6-12 month lead time before even starting to have a spanner lifted!
For goodness sake, buy, hire or lease some gliders, motor-powered or otherwise, & knock up some flying. Cadets are openly joking about those on high failing to organise the proverbial “party” in a brewery…,
From experience in DE&S, I would consider 6 months to set up a major maintenance contract exceedingly fast. The norm was closer to 12 months, and in some cases 24 months from starting all the leg work in costings, laying down the maintenance requirements etc to contracts being in place.
With regard to any repair/refurbishment/maintenance contract, I was (unusually for this topic!) trying to be optimistic - based on the fact that some elements of any future contract would (probably) already have been cobbled together for the Southern Sailplanes involvement.
Wonder if there are enough “qualified” glider technicians out there for a choice of companies to pull everything together for one contract? It probably won’t be a BAe “make your fortune” contract - unless the conditions are laid out poorly! If the contract is too stringent, then the successful company will have to minimise costs/timings by stating that “x” percentage of the airframes are unrecoverable, give them too much scope & free rein to spend = throwing good money after bad. By the way, do the Viking wings need re-gelling at a certain life stage?
The trouble is that we have safety & costings built into the balance sheet - not arguing with the safety - but the “cost” of zero cadet flying doesn’t seem to be included within the equation. We are, after all, called the AIR Cadet Organisation… How much is a new 2 seat glider (for trg, not high performance)? £100K? Bite the bullet, buy 5 now! In fact, buy lots more - we have 77(?) Vikings - bet we will lose (tech issues discovered during repair, etc) more than a handful during the ongoing proceedings. Buy now, not 2 years down the line.
I would love to know the budget for all this, the planning options & the manning considerations. Maybe a request under FoI in the near future?
Whichever way you read it as someone getting quizzed by cadets and parents about gliding (and using 5 AEF - powered flying) on a regular basis I cannot see anything positive to say.
If I read it correctly 4 from 63 Vigilant currently and 12(?) from 77 Viking by the end of August, is nothing to crow about given this has been going on since Apr 14, you could be generous and say May 14 as a start date, to allow some leeway for when the extent of the problem was known, as such 15 months (with 16 from 140 aircraft airworthy) and no real idea of when gliding will be fully accessible, ie all aircraft back at their locations and instructors fully operational, except a project end date of Apr next year, which is far too long in any circumstance. One can only hope that things will be done quicker from now on.
So very many cadets who joined the Corps potentially between the middle of 2012 and end of 2014 won’t get into a glider much before realistically Q1 2017, (given our normal allocation is 3 slots every 5/6 months) is poor on a level that you cannot begin to describe, in an organisation that sells gliding as a good way into aviation. However given the average time youngsters stay in the Corps, there will be a large number of cadets who will have left before even getting a sniff of a glider.
No someone will create a whole new set of jobs to administer it and it become overly complicated. Donald would write a GRA, which would ramble on about paper cuts, the thickness of the paper, RSI from folding and not having pointed noses in the design of the paper plane etc etc etc.
We’ve had competitions for the cadets and staff to make and fly these in the car park next door, which is always good fun.
Our son got a M&S set for making paper planes for a Christmas present 7/8 years ago, which provided us all with hours of amusement.
I agree with all of your points 
What I find most admirable after the introduction of the age limit is the number of AEF personnel who still dedicate their time to the AEFs despite not being able to fly (other than as pax). At several sites these guys keep the places running.