Gliding "paused"


I think they care about where their gliding comes from. VGS flying also gives them opportunities that they cannot experience at a BGA club. It keeps their gliding within the organisation…


Iike staying on the ground…


I manage risk to life everytime I fly for work.

Why should the RAF be any different in a non combat enviroment be any different from Easy jet.

Haddon Cave ring a bell, Nmirod down over Afghanistan, Nimrod down over Lossiemouth, Herc shot down in Iraq Chinook CFIT in Scotland, yeah they’ve known how manage risk for years and look how many have been lost due to RAF incompetance and more importantly VSO cover ups.



Looking at BGA approved clubs, it’s not as if they are run by amateurs, with no safety audit or monitoring of standards, etc.

When ACTO35 was issued, I had a long chat with Wg Cdr Flying at 2FTS, who was surprised at my direct approach; he was even more surprised when I asked 2FTS start a review of ACTO35 to include gliding. He was VERY protective when I gave my opinion that the risk aspects were being grossly over-controlled - especially for CAA-approved flight schools / BGA approved clubs. He also didn’t like it (after his response mentioning gliding safety) when I noted the Tutor mid-airs, etc…

Of course, nothing has subsequently happened with the Tutors, like turning into gliders…


Point I’ve been trying to make to one contributor. The RAFs safety culture is poor compared to the civil airlines. Working for a civil international air ambulance company, we totally embrace the ‘just cuture’ safety system and work to the highest CAA/JAA/FAA standards. That includes risk assesments working into places in the Middle East and surrounding areas and Africa. When the fueler being paid in crisp new American dollars with two guys with AK 47s stood with him, it concentrates the mind wonderfully. Now that is risk.

As to challengeing the received wisdom of some SOs I had that with some e-mails between myself and an RC, who didn’t like my forthright way of speaking amd more importantly challenging him without due deference. Found out about how he thought through an FOI request that I made.

He’s obviously never come across people outside the fence who WILL answer him back without a thought of his ‘superiority’. The outside world one day will come as a very very big shock to him and many others.


But they have slogans like “Total Safety” or “ALARP” and they only do Gliding that involves the RAFAC how can they possibly know less than civvy clubs who’s total reason for existence is Gliding.


But do they talk tothe BGA and contribute to the safety culture or just ignore them.


It’s different because we’re dealing with young people flying in RAF aeroplanes.


Rubbish, how can you compare something if you’ve never experienced both?

As for keeping it in the organisation, this is for self serving reasons only it is not for the benefit of the cadets.

When it comes to flying in the Air Cadets we are still in a “jam tomorrow” scenario.


Haddon Cave is the very reason the RAF are very aware of the reputational risk when flying cadets. Any military flying supervisors out there will know this.

If, god forbid another air cadet is killed flying or gliding then ALL flying and gliding, whatever it’s source would stop.

It’s easier for the RAF to manage the risk when cadets are flying in their aeroplanes. They have control of the experience and the staff providing the experience.


Better than the alternative. Jam next week or no jam at all…!


No, it’s not - because the only people who believe that your jam tomorrow will actually happen are the unobservant, the sycophants, and the deranged. Everyone else - we who have to explain the difference between reality and an aspiration to cadets and parents - not only knows that there’s no jam tomorrow, or next week, or next year, nor in five years time, also resent being lied to, or at its most charitable, being spoken to like 3 year olds in the run up to Christmas.

We’re not 3, and there’s no Christmas.


Based on simply maths from Turbo’s numbers…

32/1500 = 0.02 - sorry the in the above numbers i forgot to x100 to get a %

so it is 2.1%

if we assume that there is a 50% split of getting Cadets in the air between AEG and VGS (so 750 places against each opportunity)

32/750 = 4%

hence 2-4%

Now I have never suggested that the HQAC aim of 1x flight per year per Cadet was achieved, as somethings are outside of our control such as weather (and will accept to a degree pilot shortage and a/c - although Babcock know what the requirement is and should have a/c capable of meeting the needs)

however i recall many examples of Cadets flying for the 4th time in one year - so perhaps not 100% of Cadets flew each year, but there were the places out there for them to pick up


I’m not the one lying to you. I have no control over what HQRAFAC decide to put on their posters!

I guess it’s up to you what you tell new cadets and their parents about gliding/flying opportunities.


I’d like to be allocated a minimum of 50% of the Squadron Strength for flying slots, in the hope that 25% will then actually get to fly.


Ain’t going to happen, based on the revised VGS locations, overall resources, & number of days / yr for flying cadets - even if the weather remained perfect.


Do you know how many AEF slots your wing were allocated rather than an assumption?


Yes There’s consultation with the BGA. There’s a lot of concern regarding MAC where gliders operate.


Bear in mind that a VGS only tasking is not for Blue & Bronze ATPs, once up and running VGS’ main focus will be on SGS flying as that is what the instructors are standardised on and what the whole system is based around. A typical SGS cadet will take between 40 - 50 launches which is roughly equal to 13 - 16 Blue cadets.