Gliding "paused"


Opening page of the internet site:

Now answer the parents questions when they see things like this and ask what when and where? Do you suggest that ACO staff should be untruthful?


The problem would be people would, if the distances were more conducive, potentially not bother with the Air Cadet option. That couldn’t be allowed to happen.
It might cost, but I feel that some charitable organisations out there if it was pitched right would be willing to meet some of the cost.
Of course for those close enough the ATC option would be attractive.


More will have probably flown on civil aircraft on holiday. I advocated tie ins with civil airline operators at a meeting and was pooh poo’d by a Wing Commander.


If there’s one thing WW1 should’ve taught us…


It’s a control thing I’m sure, no uniform no control, no control, no need for expensive FTRS posts.


I wouldn’t lie to parents about what’s on offer. Think you have a duty to tell them how it is?

If that means some walk away, then so be it. If you think flying and gliding is so fundamental to being an air cadet then why are cadets still joining?

I have no influence over what RAFAC put on their adverts, but I do fly with a lot of cadets and see the benefit of that.


No. It’s a risk thing.


So civil airlines regulated by the JAA/CAA are unsafe even when the RAF use them to move personel from all the services and their families, plus civil servants. Or HM Queen or the Royal Family or the PM and her ministers fly on a civil aircraft, is that unsafe? Or cadets undertake a Fly Schol at a civilian club?

The ‘risk’ factor is in my opinion being used as an excuse for doing nothing other than prevaricate.


The ASA could have an issue with the advertising though, if it was reported to them!


So you think the risk to a cadets life whilst flying is being used as an excuse? Are you serious??


Well nobody’s stopping you reporting it…


I might very well do that!!


I didn’t say that as you know, I said risk was being used as an excuse to do nothing. If the RAf can use civil companies why can’t the RAFAC.

The last civil aircrash involving a UK aircraft was in 2009 at Amsterdam when a nose gear collapsed. Two airlines that I know of aoperating out of the UK have never had a crash, Easyjet and Ryanair.

I work for an air ambulance company and fly into some of the more difficult airports in the world like Madeira, Dubrovnik and the Canary Islands in an executive jet without a problem and I’m in the back.

Look at the amount of people world wide moved each day or even just in the UK, it’s far safer than driving a vehicle load of cadets to the AEF/VGS site.


As it stands today, no civil flying school in the UK can meet the safety standards and measures in place for a mass passenger operation at a Tutor AEF operation. Fact. Any mass outsourcing (noting the Tutor AEF operation already is marginal costs sunk within an existing capabaility) would require massive investment by a contractor before the safety argument could be signed off, and the cost would be astronomical. Any outsourcing of cadet flying will only ever be a marginal measure. I can tell you now how much money will be available if Tutor AEF was pulled and it starts with a zero…


Oooh could we have an Apprentice like thing, for the people in HQAC / SLT and Alan Sugar decides if they get hired or fired, not sure any of them would be left.


From your response I can see you know little about how the RAF manages risk to life.


Oh, I don’t know. We were waiting for our Herc taxi in the States in the 90’s when it landed and some engineers (well, we THOUGHT they were engineers) went over and started lathering the tailplane with a variety of hammers. The airframe was declared u\s but the RAF were happy for us to fly back in it the very next day.

Then over the Atlantic, it hit turbulence and we went down. We were that close to the wavetops, we could wave to the Titanic. The loadies started preparing the lifejackets.

Yeah. The RAF really know how to manage risk to life.


And things have changed a little since the 90s
Don’t forget we’re talking about Mrs Miggins boy/girl as the passenger. That puts a completely different factor on the risk…


That’s only because it’s tied up with the RAF and as we have seen they couldn’t be more inward looking and insular, which they can afford to do because they have no unaccountability to taxpayers who pay for them. Ironically parents are taxpayers, now isn’t a pity that since 2014 parents haven’t lobbied MPs. I know questions have been asked in the house and been fobbed off with atypical BS. Maybe we should have kept encouraging parents. After all without the support of parents, youngsters would not be coming.

An attitude espoused that no one else could do it sounds like someone saying we’re the only ones that can make or do this, only to find someone else is doing / making and people are buying it over their supposedly unique product / service. The question is do you honestly think cadets would be worried what the aircraft looked like or who was flying it?


645 are converting to the Viking, however at the present time they have no aircraft at Topcliffe. As winch launching cannot be used due to the airfield infrastructure at Topcliffe a Viking is being aerotowed from Syerston every few weeks to allow instructor training.