I am a squadron OC and am in the fortunate position of having a healthy number of staff in double figures who parade regularly, with around half of them in uniform and all of them with significant volunteer experience.
Some of these staff are really proactive; they will organise activities and get on with the role they have been given. The challenge I have is getting the others to do the same. I have too many staff that don’t seem able to complete longer projects and will often just stand there until they are given something specific to do. Too much of my time is spent thinking up things to do for these volunteers and then checking that they are actually doing what I’ve asked.
Conversely, I have a very proactive cadet NCO team who run most of parade evening activities. This is great for our cadet retention and gives our older cadets a reason to attend when they otherwise might have left.
It isn’t a question of them having a lack of experience - most of them have either been staff on other squadrons or have been with the organisation a long time.
My question is, has anyone else encountered this, and what did you or your squadron do about it? Any advice would be appreciated
I unfortunately have the opposite. Plenty of staff on the books but none want / willing to assist.
This had lead to Sqn Shutdown due to lack of CFAV on parade nights.
As OC I can’t do everything.
For specific staff who only do specific activities and not attend on regular basis in a supporting role temped to say no to their specific activities unless they assist and turn up more regularly.
We have a handful of staff both uniformed and tea makers…I mean Ci’s (I’m a CI and I make most drinks) In an ideal world I have loved the idea of sitting down as a group and having the OC say we need A-F planning for the year and would like to know which staff members can do A-F.
Instead we have an OC who Says Bob you do A+B, Colin C+D and Karen E+F. The rest of you just look busy and help out if needed.
Now if you have any other ideas to benefit the Sqn and Cdts then I (OC) will listen to what you suggest then come back with a no.
Only for the OC to implement ideas you have brought up, weeks or months later down the line. Now with regards to a training programme for the next few months to 6 months, we wont do that cos so much could change and certain staff may have other commitments so we will only plan for the next parade night or quite often the moment you step through the door to get something planned
RANT INCOMING
Possible good news on my DBS forms, our OC had them posted to their house on Friday and they will drop them off on Monday night after work. Why they couldn’t drop them off or have me collect them from their house 6 miles away I don’t know I have only been waiting since April for them to be posted to my house. I think all this time waiting, do I even want to return or was it their intention to keep me waiting so long that I would lose interest? If I get them Monday and filled out, how many years will I be waiting for my DBS to be cleared? END OF RANT
Also we haven’t been informed if we will have any cadets returning, I dread to ask the cadets via media socials incase I get barked at by the OC and if I ask the OC to put a message up or a poll we have no idea if he will do that or it will take him weeks to do it.
I’ve had a few shandys and I’m getting the throbbing temple vein.
Sorry to hear about your OC and your squadron. I was keen to get cadets back as soon as I physically could. Sounds like their heart might not be in it as much as it should be, which is something I am hearing more often than not lately. All I’d say is to stick at it, things will change eventually.
Your DBS should take 4-6 weeks based on the last one I submitted. Hopefully you’ll have some cadets back by then
I don’t think saying to staff with specific qualifications that they can’t teach/go on expeds/do their area of interest/expertise unless they support a parade night will end well for you… you are better off cleverly trying to incorporate their interest into your regular parade programme being mindful of how much commitment they actually want to give.
For example, if you have a bronze d of e exped on the horizon, it isn’t unreasonable for you to have a kit and route check night and a cooking in the field night… run by that staff member in the 4 weeks running up to their event… after which you might not see them for 6 weeks - so be it.
You’ll never force a casual staff member to do what they don’t want to. You’ll just lose them on the bits that they do actually do when they get the hump.
It’s a tough one. You do really need 3 staff members that will routinely show up even if it is just to open the squadron. Until now we have had 4 routine showers up, and a few specialist instructors…
Due to various circumstances we are down to 1 regular shower up-er, two out for a while and one that can only make a single night.
It’s really tricky, but our “specialist” staff won’t be cajoled into coming down to open…
I don’t know what the answer is, but just be careful you don’t lose hard to find specialist skills by trying to force them down on parade nights they’re not interested in.
@anon59391077 I don’t really see the problem; let your NCO’s teach, the engaged staff plan and teach, and the others turn up and drink tea and have a gossip in the office.
If the training programme is full, the cadets are happy and you have plenty of staff cover, then enjoy it!
I’ve experienced similar and I think the simple answer is that some adults need coaching and to be a really good OC you need to make time to develop them as well.
Sometimes experience in our organisation is simply equated to ‘time at a unit’ or ‘number of units’ without consideration of the quality of that time or the input on each of those units.
I think my approach has been in the past to try and use those more capable staff to free up some of your time so that you can concentrate on developing those who are less ‘strategic’ or long-term. Have an honest conversation about completion of projects or why they don’t get on and choose their next task. I suspect you’ll find its because they simply don’t know what they should focus on next and don’t want to bother you as they know you are busy.
Maybe they don’t fully understand what your long term plan / vision () is for the unit and thus can’t steer themselves in the right direction? All of these are something that can only be solved with some coaching time.
It’s a difficult thing to do to actively make time to develop them by coaching (as it needs more input time) when you have so much to do but it will pay much greater dividends long term.
Well I was considering not getting my DBS done, but I knew down the line I might feel different than I currently do so it made sense to fill forms out and see how it goes and make my decision in the coming months or year.
And as for the time it could take to get DBS cleared, I have no idea when and if my forms were sent off. I have actually just messaged the OC (we aren’t really friendly as they didn’t like my mojo when they first joined our Sqn #FairlyLongStory) and I should get a response in the next week to month
We had some eager NCO’s that loved taking younger cadets to teach and do outdoor (Sqn grounds) things with but they have since aged out and are going to uni or various other time consuming things like working. I got a list of our cadets we have on the books (from a staff member still on the system and not suspended like me) and a good 40% of them have aged out. I still don’t know who’s staying on so until our OC gets that info from sending a post to cadets and parents, we don’t know numbers and couldn’t plan if we wanted to
I understand in the ideal world the person who has the big title on the door (OC) runs the Sqn. But in this voluntary organisation where we baby sit kids and try to make their time with us busy and happy, we are all volunteers. Yes they did a few courses and interviews to wear a uniform but our goals are all the same at the end of the day aren’t they? I could rant about our OC for paragraphs but it will bore you and wont change diddly squat
Pinch of salt moment: I was under the belief they sent forms to my house as they did when I first took an interest in joining as a CI. But I can’t take anything our OC says as I don’t believe a word they say
And your guess is as good as mine to why it’s taken months to get these forms. What makes it worse is they have to be done every 3 yrs instead of 5 now don’t they
This will make you laugh, or not. I had to visit an RAF station before covid and asked questions about the day. I never got a response so actually contacted wing with the Sqn email and CC’d our OC. I got my answers from wing but our OC had a moan saying I shouldn’t have messaged them as it makes our Sqn look Clean forum Words clueless. I did point out in plain words that when I ask questions or need info it takes them a year to respond. I have everything crossed that they get a promotion to pee off other people and we get a new OC who isn’t a dick
I will certainly be looking into that cos this malarkey has been a bit of a mare
I’ve learned to accept that some are more active than others. Get too stressed about it and it loses its hobby feel and gets more work like. I’m not going to try and make things up to try and get someone involved. I work on the premise if you volunteer you “join” look around to see what’s what and ask about things you could do. This is how it is in our church and our local fete committee and it works. @anon59391077 What you describe is potentially a problem of his situation. A lot of staff described as double figures is to my mind too many for anything other than the largest squadrons. You can spend all of your time managing their particular needs and end up nowhere. There is only a finite number things that NEED to be done and human nature is that if people can see this and others are doing it, why bother. Some will help out but lets not kid ourselves that everyone is like or going to be like this regardless of how long they’ve been staff. In many instances I would suggest the longer you’ve been doing it, more likely the “time for someone else to do it” comes into play. I’ve been like this with things and the line “I won’t be around for ever” has been uttered more than once and leave it to the staff to figure it out.
If you try and invent things for people to do it will be seen through.
If it is a project ensure that you have people with a basic interest and the basics for doing it are there and available and it doesn’t require doing a course or training etc.
There is also the effect of the last 16 months (and counting) on people’s real lives, in so many ways. This is going to be a factor that many will conceal.
I have noticed a change in the cadets that have come back. They seem far more concerned / focussed on their schoolwork and personal futures than what I remember across the age range, not just the older ones.
Currently our cadets seem keen enough, but the circumstances and restrictions in the shed means it’s not as it was, but we need to be aware of outside factors and not put too hight expectations on returning cadets.
@DontCallMeSir Come the revolution and we move to online DBS depending bow it’s done, reminders don’t need to come out anymore than a couple of weeks before it runs out. I have online DBS which have taken 5-6 working days from clicking submit to cert on the doormat.
I would hope they’d let OC’s do sqn ones and Wing OC ones, but given OCs are no longer thought capable of updating staff vetting details, I guarantee we’ll have to send details to Wing for one of the minions to finish whatever they do to get round to it, so I suspect there will still be a 6 month advance notice and they do their bit a couple of days before it runs out.
It can vary wildly. Even in a big city I’ve had less than a week to just before an escalation is allowed, for the cert to pop though the door.
I have the update service now which is free for volunteers
The police checks are the biggest hurdle no matter the method used to submit. Online is quicker but still needs someone to go in and tick the boxes they have seen the ID proofs and which they were so it will not be a silver bullet but missing out DBS Cheadle Hulme and the snail mail part should improve things.
I’ve posted the link on other threads so not going to add it again but you can find the performance of individual police forces on gov.uk, easy to find with a quick Google if you can’t find any of the previous posts.
If checking the ID proofs takes more than 5 minutes to set you up, they’ve been lunch. But this being part of CS you can see it being made more complicated for the sake of making it complicated.
I hope it works like it seems to in my online DBS experience in that the admin get notified and we don’t have to send certified copies.
I have only been waiting since April for them to be posted to my house. I think all this time waiting, do I even want to return or was it their intention to keep me waiting so long that I would lose interest? If I get them Monday and filled out, how many years will I be waiting for my DBS to be cleared?
and if I ask the OC to put a message up or a poll we have no idea if he will do that or it will take him weeks to do it.
) is for the unit and thus can’t steer themselves in the right direction? All of these are something that can only be solved with some coaching time.
