Getting around the glass ceiling of OC

Adult Staff Staff Development
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I’m finding the responses to this conversation intriguing. It’s not really a straightforward issue to answer (hence my own hesitation about what to do next).

For me, the motivation is partially a desire for a new challenge (I’ve been taking on extra bits and bobs and do have a bunch of side qualifications but there’s only so much time in the day and taking a full secondary duty just isn’t feasible) - and a desire to have more of a strategic overview on activities. I worry less than most people about the ‘distance’ from cadet activities, because I’d selectively apply for the roles that involved planning activities for the cadets…

Of course I could sacrifice the OC position and retrain in something more qualification specific, but one of my favourite aspects of being in the ATC is running camps – I already struggle to get camp comm roles as a Flt Lt, and that would only become less of an option if I sacrificed the OC role for a secondary wing duty (I have also run my own camps for squadron and sector, but not as much as I would like because, you know, being an OC takes time). Rank isn’t exactly the issue, but if I moved ‘down’ from here I’d lose a connection to the one thing that I most enjoy doing: planning and running camps (especially the UK Blues camps). And, yes, I can attend as staff but I really do enjoy having the autonomy to make my own decisions and, as much as I can, design a camp based on my own vision.

I’m curious to know if this is something you can evidence or just anecdotal from the people around you?

I’m torn on this: I think it’s a cultural flaw that is deeply embedded in the upper echelons of the organisation. But I also think… no one would think it odd if someone in the workplace was reluctant to take a demotion (although obviously some people choose to for a whole host of reasons that are none of my business). I can see why the reticence to move back to squadron exists, although I don’t personally agree with it. I don’t blame the people in the Sqn Ldr posts for that either, though - there’s a deeper cultural shift that needs to happen.

What do you think causes the jealousy and resentment? I don’t resent my wing staff as people (mostly, most of the time: we’re all human after all) but I do resent the lack of opportunity that arises as a direct result of their intransigence. I also sometimes resent having to email them quoting the ACTO/ACP/ACTI/WHATEVER to query something that’s obviously incorrect… Not at all the same thing, but easily mistaken by a casual gossip mongerer perhaps?

It seems there’s a fine line, because people do raise an eyebrow if you admit you want to move into a wing role: I wonder if they assume it’s all about the status, rather than the wider picture? And then, I wonder why they assume that?

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that would not be the case in our Wing. (Traditional) Annual camps are so poorly supported that there are sometimes begging letters sent out asking for persons to consider the Camp Com role else weeks will have to be handed back!

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24

In our wing I have seen the same.

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If the ideal is the RAF way but the issue is the drop in rank - would it not be acceptable to allow those that attained the rank of Sqn Ldr or even Wg Cdr to retain it as worn, but take the VA at Flt Lt role?

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But that is unfair on the Sqn Commanders who put in X years, then revert to FO if they stand down.

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I think the point would be that you keep your highest rank but get paid for the role you are doing.

Personally I think “the RAF way” is a terrible idea, it works when everyone has to move up or out but that’s not how our organisation works.

In most roles it takes 3 years to even start to make a real difference so constant chopping and changing of staff isn’t the answer.

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28

Problem is that after a generation or two of WSOs, you’ve a got scraper-heavy corps.

I don’t think there should be as many Sqn Ldr WSO posts anyway - especially when you look at how (and how many) are actually filled by FgOffs or NCOs.

Make all primary posts Flt Lt with the exception of a few exec roles (e.g. Dep WCO, Wg Trg, WSC) - pay remunerate them at Sqn Ldr if you really want, then there’s less hassle them stepping down or back onto units.

Heck, I know plenty of people who have chosen to stay on/running a unit while doing their higher duties.

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In fact, thinking about it, why have any promotion at all???

SNCOs don’t get promoted if they transfer onto wing staff, so why not make it that way for officers?

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It also wrecks the rank/seniority/weight structure - you could have a sector with a Sqn Ldr as sector lead, one Sqn with a WCo as OC, two with Flt Lt as OC, and one with a Fg Off - that is absolutely not going to be a partnership of equals acting in a collegiate manner.

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Daws has it - it would apply across the organisation. You would wear what ever the highest rank is you have attained, but get paid the VA at the level appropriate to the role.

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Assuming everyone were grown ups it would work - ah, never mind just read that back.

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33

I’ve never seen the appeal of a Wing post. Some people crave them and they are welcome to it. I’ve been asked several times over the years and said no, they’ve thrown the “new challenge” cliché around, but the challenge IMO would be not losing the will to live, with the politicking and sniping between Wing staff and the rudeness about squadron staff that goes on at wing meetings. I also feel it’s too polarising as most invariably go to do one thing, but there are those like govt ministers get given a job every few months, where they have no idea about it, but desperately want to be on Wing.
Wing staff show no interest in anything else going on. Turn up for a Wing event like inter-sqn sports, Wing parade etc and where are these supposed “Wing staff”? Be a sqn cdr and not turn up and people say “you weren’t at x”, even though you don’t real have any particular interest in the activities other than cadets from your sqn doing something. I think Wing staff should staff these things in lieu of squadron staff after all they are Wing events. Squadron staff go and just sit around enjoying the day.
As for time limiting roles. All well and good IF there are sufficient staff of the specific status/rank to fill the spaces, but for roles like Sqn Cdr you probably need 5 years to get anywhere, unless you are one of the ‘butterflies’. But unless something strange has happened we don’t seem to be overrun with people who want to be sqn cdrs or just be sqn staff.

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34

I think it’s very dependant on the post you go for and or are offered. There are certain SME roles that I would be very interested in, whereas I wouldn’t be interested in being a WSC or in doing certain other SME roles.

As a Squadron Commander I wouldn’t expect a WSO who is an SME to turn up to Wing events outside their remit unless they want or need to be present. (At the same time I don’t feel that I need to go to everything as king as I’m represented). However I would expect all of the Sector Commanders (or Deputy) to be at any major Wing Event.

So you want the Wing DofE Officer to come and do the officiating at Wing Sports rather than running an expedition so that you can just go and watch?

I’d say that’s the same with all of the big Wing roles as well as with Squadron OC’s. You need at least 3 years to get a grip and start making a difference.

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You see, I would.

I’m a big believer in leadership from the top down, and if I’m expected to give up a Saturday officiating at a sports event, then I expect those in the chain above me to do the same. Imo, if you’re a Sqn Ldr, you should be putting in more hours, and working to a higher set of standards than those below them.

If the Sqn is bag packing, and I’m free, I’ll attend - despite hating bag packing with a passion. If I CBA, how can I expect my staff and cadets to BA?

Poor planning aside, if any member of staff is on other ATC business, then of course they shouldn’t cancel. But why shouldn’t the training office come along? Or the AvO, etc

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I quite agree.

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a new challenge?
a role better suited to your skills?
a role better suited to your knowledge?
a role better suited to your experience?
a role you feel you’d have more impact than the current CoC?
a role you believe you’d be able to achieve more of your personal aim than by the limits of the Squadron environment

harsh - very harsh and short-sighted

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41

Your Wing Structure is different to mine clearly, where I am the SME’s are all Flt Lt’s its only the Sector Commanders who are Sqn Ldr’s.

There are only so many weekends in the year and they are still volunteers. As an OC I have to pick and choose my events to ensure a balance between, work, Cadets and home life. If I do Wing Athletics on a Sunday there is no way I can persuade OC Home Command that I can run an Expedition or staff a Training Course the weekend after. The same would apply to WSO’s and if you are an area SME surely that is your priority?

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If COs don’t move on, where does the next generation of COs come from…?

Are we? I thought that had gone with the dodo/VR(T)? Now that we’re CFC we’re ‘substantive’ at whatever rank we are.

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I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said.

But I will say that we’re all in the same boat. As a member of Squadron staff, I parade twice a week, plus staff weekend events. Yet I’m expected to attend wing sports to assist running it. WSO are invited, but not expected. I don’t much care for the “Look how busy I am” Top Trumps, but I expect WSOs to work harder, and earn the rank that they hold.

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45

Indeed we are and I have to pick and choose what events I do as an OC too.

I see no reason that any individual “type” of staff member should be required to attend. As long as units send someone what’s the issue?