Picking up on the comment regarding on the med form thread about parents who don’t have English as first language and even for those who are British but have difficulty reading/writing, are our forms in light of the much vaunted equality and diversity, actually fit for purpose.
One of my wife’s friends is a TA in a local primary school where they have 18 different languages/dialects from Europe, sub contintent and Africa. Over the last few years they have run sessions for parents when applying for senior school, just to fll in the forms. She said that many times the children translate for their parents, which she says is OK up to a point.
I’ve experienced this at the squadron and also British parents who are not what I would regard as fully literate and struggle with understanding forms.
Go into our local council offices and library and it’s awash with posters and leaflets in all manner of languages.
[quote=“glass half empty 2” post=20933]Picking up on the comment regarding on the med form thread about parents who don’t have English as first language and even for those who are British but have difficulty reading/writing, are our forms in light of the much vaunted equality and diversity, actually fit for purpose.
One of my wife’s friends is a TA in a local primary school where they have 18 different languages/dialects from Europe, sub contintent and Africa. Over the last few years they have run sessions for parents when applying for senior school, just to fll in the forms. She said that many times the children translate for their parents, which she says is OK up to a point.
I’ve experienced this at the squadron and also British parents who are not what I would regard as fully literate and struggle with understanding forms.
Go into our local council offices and library and it’s awash with posters and leaflets in all manner of languages.[/quote]
Playing devil’s advocate, if we did produce forms in different languages, would the staff have the resources to translate them back?
Anyway, in my experience even if the parents struggle with the language, the cadets don’t, and it’s them who act as the translators.
I knew things were bad in school but calling in the Army Reserve (sorry TA doesn’t exist anymore) to restore order is a bit much 
Will be my get my coat and go and sit on the naughty step :silly:
As has been said; how is a squadron going to translate them back? There’s no point in knowing how to ask for directions in a foreign country if you can’t understand the answer…
There is a considerable shift in the public services domain lately of, we will provide a form. It will only be one, and it’s in English. If you don’t understand that, get someone to translate it for you. Write on it in English is directed.
I saw the subject line and thougt it was going to be a thread on how the new cadet forms now dont contain the info needed for Bader entry, and about the new flying inquisition forms etc. :ohmy:
On this actual topic I wholeheartedly agree with the ‘here is the form, take it or leave us’ approach as per the others
i can understand a translated “guide to filling out formXXX” but if it isnt in English it has no worth to anyone who needs the information
Could we/should we take a cadet who doesn’t speak English? Where does it stop, do we translate joining instructions, ACPs, parent letters.
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I’ve had and seen a few cadets where English is a difficulty (mind you I’ve known British teenagers including my own where English is a second language) and to say we can’t / shouldn’t take them, elevates it to a whole new level. These children’s parents have chosen to live in the UK (or whatever we might be tomorrow) and want them to integrate and part of that process is joining clubs and groups like the cadet forces.
You could argue that schools and workplaces could do the same, no foreigners who can’t speak English here (Royston Vaseyesque), but you wouldn’t want to be in the shoes of the head honcho if they moaned about it.
Sorry, my post above should have been split into two paragraphs. I had 2 cadets who had limited English skills, but did ok.
Second point was to what extent do we adapt and change when resources and man power are already stretched.
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You are the same person who bemoans the pushing out of the printing costs from HQAC to the Sqn’s right?
This has been the case since day one of the ACO and probably will be for a long time to come, so what’s new?
If we are not equipped to do so then what are we supposed to do?
And Integration also means learning the local lingo if you want to be understood.
How are you going to understand them if they moan?
In all seriousness, I would argue the same – who is going to employ somebody who cannot speak English and the employer cannot speak the Employee’s native tongue? It is for the Individual to adapt, not the State pandering to leftist hand wringing.
It is not outwith the realms of possibility to design a form which includes descriptions in a number of languages and which can be switched between those languages. For instance, a hindi-speaking family could complete it in Hindi but the form can then be switched to english for sending of printing.
I do think that the level of complexity is not justified by the risk.
[quote=“incubus” post=20950]It is not outwith the realms of possibility to design a form which includes descriptions in a number of languages and which can be switched between those languages. For instance, a hindi-speaking family could complete it in Hindi but the form can then be switched to english for sending of printing.
I do think that the level of complexity is not justified by the risk.[/quote]
Technology exists, but it doesn’t become legal. I you complete in a language, and sign it, it has to stay in that language. Strange, and very boring background, but that’s the way things are.
Are people forgetting that we already live in a bilingual society, and that there are already versions of forms and instructions available in Welsh?
(Admittedly not all, but still…)
MW
Which 15 year old on work experience designed / produced the latest incarnation of the 3822A and which muppet makes it a PDF and then in the top right corner puts a comment “or insert similarly sized jpeg photo”. :ohmy:
This was obviously a Word document then some idiot PDF’d it. :ohmy:
Then it says signed by “the PERSON having parental responsibility” not next of kin. My wife and I had/have parental responsibility for our children, bearing in mind once a parent you never stop being a parent and full time to boot. If it is going to say parental responsibility, it should say PEOPLE with parental responsibility and there should be two name and signature places.
Similary the new TG21, I wonder if they could have made it less user friendly.
I was filling out some basic details for a camp and the font sizes were all over the place. Amateurs.
[quote=“Plt Off Prune” post=20951][quote=“incubus” post=20950]It is not outwith the realms of possibility to design a form which includes descriptions in a number of languages and which can be switched between those languages. For instance, a hindi-speaking family could complete it in Hindi but the form can then be switched to english for sending of printing.
I do think that the level of complexity is not justified by the risk.[/quote]
Technology exists, but it doesn’t become legal. I you complete in a language, and sign it, it has to stay in that language. Strange, and very boring background, but that’s the way things are.[/quote]
Make it an electronic form that is filled in on a computer. Form can be printed and signed when complete, but the information is already recorded on the computer so you don’t need to read the form!