I’m not aware of any difference in pattern of forage cap for OR and OF, my station clothing stores supplies one pattern for all.
Officers I believe. IIRC the ORs ones are made from different material. (Wool as opposed to Wool Barathea?)
I think these days they are all the same pattern up to Group Captain, where you get the light blue piping.
Correct. There is no difference between Officers/OR Field Service Caps.
There is a Gp Capt and above pattern, and a standard pattern.
As these are not an issue item they come made in varying quality of fabric depending on who you buy them from.
That is, then, a fairly-recent convergence.
I’m 100% certain that Offrs/ORs’ forage/field caps were previously made from different material, each to a slightly-different design. They were as similar/different to/from each-other as Offr/WO/ORs’ SD peaks (by which I mean whilst Joe Public couldn’t ever tell them them apart, absolutely everyone across the air force could, from miles away)
What possibly has happened is that ever since ORs’ No1 dress uniforms started being made from the same colour/quality of material as Officers’ best blues, perhaps the manufacturers have stopped making OR forage caps out of No.2 dress material?
The question I had, puzzling over which pattern of forage cap is meant to be worn by Warrant Officers (ATC), is justified, and many people will have forgotten the recent ACO history behind this.
When I first arrived into the world of Air Cadets in the early/mid 2000s, I was puzzled to see what were then AWOs wearing ORs’ No1 dress jackets. At that time, only RWOs appeared to be officially-entitled to wear Offrs pattern best blues, other AWOs were meant to slum it in ORs’-style unbelted No1s.
However, not only was that dress regulation partly ignored by many, it was around that time that all No1 dress uniforms for all ORs were starting to be changed into an ‘almost Officer’ quality material and pattern.
A further (fairly-recent) complication regarding Warrant Officers, and forage caps, is that I’m convinced that RAF/RAuxAF WOs previously used to wear Offr badges on them (ie crown and eagle), and not WO-pattern beret badges. However, I think I subsequently found-out (via Air Cadet Central?) that this must’ve officially been changed at some point, presumably to prevent rank misrecognition. My guesstimate for the timescale for that change may have been around 2003?
Incidently, where are uniform details like this ever actually published? Because they don’t seem to appear within AP1358 (either in the RAF and the ACO variant). Is there another AP that does cover this kind of information? I’ve never seen it, if it does exist
Certainly there was a difference in the material used when I became a Sgt (ATC) back in 2005. The pattern was the same but the OR hats were much flimsier in the type of material they were made from.
Certainly I’ve seen some noticeable variations in quality and fabric.
I’m not strictly convinced that this was an “Officers vs OR” difference rather than a “Well made, but expensive” version versus “not very expensive - because it’s made of cheap fabric”.
The pattern doesn’t appear to have changed for many years. I’ve got one here that belonged to an old AWO of the 70’s/80’s and the pattern is the same as modern versions.
Again though I have seen better productions made to the original pattern which can be pulled down into “cold weather mode” (not an authorised method of wear anymore) as well as versions which save on fabric (and cost) by “faking” the flaps and peak.
I do recall there being an option for WO to wear either the WO badge or the crown and eagle but I can’t reference that.
The oldest version of AP 1358 I have is 6th Edition, AL9, Feb 08 and the only option allowed therein is the miniature WO badge.
Those details are contained in Chapter 7 of AP 1358 “Distinguishing Insignia”
wilf_san if there exists a document on uniform that you’ve never seen, what hope for the rest of us?
Well, although I’m getting on in years (as we all are) and therefore have bucketloads of experience, every day still brings new insights.
One possible angle on a secondary location for certain precise uniform and badging details (ie potentially being documented somewhere outwith AP1358) is that the main Air Publication itself (1358 I mean) was originally just a reference/directive for Officers’ Orders of Dress - this was reflected in it’s old title.
I’d doubt that precise uniforms details such as these being mentioned here would be lurking in an annexe to QRs…but …they might be found within a summary of MOD(AFB) DINs.
Does anyone definitively know how decisions and judgements of the RAF DPC are promulgated? (I’m not sure if the RAF still ‘promulgates’ information, these days, but you get my drift…)