FOI request - remuneration

i could accept that if the VA was a salary - it was consistent with effort put in and regular and predictable.

but it isn’t.
Our Wing has seen more junior Staff Sgts/FS working along side Plt Off/Fg Offs who are the young 20-somethings making events happen, which may only be a NCO development course, or a shooting weekend, nothing outrageous or ground breaking, than we have the “senior” officers.

I know an OC who does very little which is eligible to claim pay, much of it is Squadron run events and/or community based events. That individual doesn’t attend camps, doesn’t support development courses or weekends, and I would be surprised if they would need more than a second hand to count the number of VA days claimed per year (and the majority of that would be “mandatory” CO conferences and the like).

we are volunteers and we can say “no”.
We won’t because we see it as our duty, it is easier to say no but we also know we’re the best person to do it.
and because we love the role, the buzz of getting the job done (and done well), or simply want the Cadets to have the same (or better) experiences we remember as a Cadets we make it happen because we want to and not because 6 weeks later I get £65 in my pocket.

As with the regular military, what’s needed is to look after the people. We can do far more with £5 million worth of professional, motivated staff than we could do with £5 million worth of canoes and minibusses.

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I think you maybe wrong. It could be the final nail for a lot of people

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I don’t disagree - simply interested in what value £5million actually would be to the organisation if spent differently.

However, if you are only just putting up with the tedium of parade nights and then some of the enjoyable bits gets less rewarding or less frequent, then the balance between staying and going does shift. For some it could be the tipping point, but that doesn’t mean money was more important, just that a life/RAFAC balance needs to be considered equitable.

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people said the same about the loss of VRT to CFC
people said the same about siging the Volunteer agreement.

Of those i know who left because of the VRT (only 2) I know of one who has come back…
I am yet to hear of anyone who has removed or left because they haven’t signed the VA

But neither of those have a practical difference.

I wouldn’t leave, however my commitment level would drastically change.

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I couldn’t answer that but as someone said earlier
VA is a bribe to put up with the crap we do…
I turn I know of people who use their VA to bribe their better half’s… a weeks camp - you get a nice long weekend away

Not everyone is in the same boat and people need to make their own choices but unless the loss of VA results as pointed out in a massive drop in admin then it could be interesting

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true - but plenty of people heard of people who said they’d leave - but haven’t.

snap

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I couldn’t care less about the VA. However, losing it means that OC Home (who is a selfish so and so who doesn’t understand volunteering to help others unless it’s with her church music group) would make it such a ballache that I wouldn’t do anything beyond the normal parade sessions and anything I could fit in during the week on one of my volunteering days from work. The VA is the only reason I can do extra stuff not because of me but because of my family, but I guess that means you’d say good riddance if I decided to walk because I was no longer able to participate as my contingent commander requires.

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this is depressingly so true…

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Snap!

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I suppose it depends how you look at that £5M, one off lump or annual budget?

The former spend and be done.

The latter you could give squadrons and wings an annual grant of say £4.5K pa and ditch VA. For each to use how they see fit, with the caveat only £1K pa could be ‘saved’ for a big spend. It could be used for fuel at a decent rate, staff expenses, staff course fees, cadet camp fees, as well as kit, equipment etc. It could be used to put the fun back with free / low cost trips, socials etc, not having to overly worry about the cost.

it has to be a very real concern if the only way HQAC really think that they can motivate staff is with a random, many strings attached payment scheme, then there is something seriously wrong. Paying people to motivate them is a flawed system and as I think we see to degrees across the country doesn’t work and hasn’t worked for ages.

Why is it with this payment more people aren’t joining us as staff and taking up the uniform route and looking to be a Sqn Cdr and getting a higher rate? The idea of looking how the Scouts operate wrt group leaders and adult helpers in general might not be such a bad idea. How does it go, “steal with pride”. I know a few “Scout” leaders who have been doing it for over 70 years man/boy and woman/girl, in senior roles. Not many of them in the Air Cadets, some might get to 50 years, but over that unlikely to be in a “lead” role.

@steve679 Don’t you think that younger staff should be picking up the baton and doing things and learning for the future, rather than have older staff? I don’t recall seeing very many older staff around when I was a young member of staff, but then there wasn’t as many, as the upper age was 55 for uniform and many said their good byes at that point. The only reason that there are more, older staff around is because the upper age of 55 was removed a few years ago as it was considered discriminatory. But as now one of the “senior” in age and experience, I feel it’s time to take the foot off the right pedal and do what I want to do, rather than chasing around trying to do it all. I know a few older than me who still do lots, but they don’t have a family or like several, divorced or widowed, so more time on their hands.

WRT to things in general, a concern should be from a cursory browse of the “ask the team”, the number of times RC(N) uses a phrase such as “command board / RAF / MoD decision”, accompanied with “RAF / MoD unlikely to change”, Is pretty bleak in a more dynamic world. What relevance does the ACMB have in any of the decisions and are they only allowed to move the toys around the box, rather than play with them? Ergo any suggestions to them about changes etc are IMO falling on stony ground if they aren’t able to effect changes and we are too entwined in MoD/RAF politics for anything to actually change to our benefit (this is the crucial word) that isn’t purely cosmetic.

Losing VA won’t see me walk, but it will see me become a CI.

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The big thing to remember is that if we lose VA it won’t be repurposed back within the organisation , it will just be cut from the budget.

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It will be interesting to see how the recent severe cuts to VA for CCF(RN) play out; I plan to discuss it with the Commodore who is reviewing our CCF this term. I think the RN is taking a calculated risk that it won’t be too bad; unfortunately, the main effect is that CCF(RN) CFAVs won’t want to take part in Joint activities, which rather defeats one of the objects of the CCF…

What do these cuts look like?

@pEp Comments like this play into the bribe argument, which is why HQAC really do need to fully evaluate the thinking of all staff, as to why they volunteer in uniform and if VA is large part of the reason, especially as it seems Sqn Cdrs, something has gone seriously wrong, which HQAC need to address and take the appropriate actions to reverse it. To have potentially 900+ CFAV all sitting there thinking, take away VA and I’ll stop doing this, is not healthy.
But there is a really strong suspicion they couldn’t careless and are prepared to play the averages, like they have with CFC and “the employment contract” and as it seems are CCF(RN). Just hope the house of cards doesn’t come tumbling down.

@daws1159 You’re probably right, but it does seem that VA is significant reason as to largely why people carry on doing ‘cadets’ as uniformed staff, which is not a good position. The £5M could be repurposed if they wanted it to, but I couldn’t see them wanting to do it.

It’s not and most people don’t see it as such.

Taking this away however is a bit of a kick and will probably be the straw that broke the proverbial back.

But there does seem to be a fair few on here implying, no VA and I’m gone as a CO and or not doing as much, which gives the impression it’s more important than it should be.