Flying/Gliding Another nail in the coffin

Everyone Flying
68

Well, if that’s what you’re wondering, then I have a fairly simple answer. I do hope you can keep up.

  1. If something happens to to that cadet then the only person who might be around to help is the same person who has to fly the aircraft. How do you think you would handle a first aid situation while driving down the motorway? It could be 15-20 min before a casualty can be treated.

  2. Nobody on an easyjet flight is going to be asked to abandon the aircraft by parachute and if they are physically unable to open an emergency exit themselves they are moved away from that exit.

Jesus Wept.

69

Really?? Did I forget to add the “sarcastic face” to my original post? :stuck_out_tongue:

I have had a detailed back from RAF CAM. Basically, their input was medical only, rather than anything else related to other risk assessment factors or form format.

Here is a small extract from the reply:

[quote]In part, the new process tries to mitigate two known risks:

-	To make it as likely as possible that parents declare relevant illness

-	To make it clear that cadet squadrons also declare known illness before air experience flights. [/quote]

From the second item, I read into that that there have been own goal(s) somewhere??

In short, the spreadsheet is designed to signpost individuals into one of three groups - safe, unsafe and ground.

The risk is “held” by DDH 22 Gp, so down to them for the processes & associated proposals. I guess that 3FTS are the “holders” of the medical form, so queries, etc, should be sent to them. When I find the contact, I shall do so.

70

Look, its all much of a muchness. The guidance is on the form. As staff, you will know your cadets and plan accordingly.

We sent ours on a short notice (20 hrs) Merlin AEF, they all filled out the forms and while they were all “no’s”, it was a simple process.

Granted, if they had been some “yes’” it would have been a different proposal. Tho as sqn staff, we would have managed those interested

71

So, in practical terms, how are you guys actually getting these forms completed? Inviting parents in and working through the form on the screen, emailing them to parents and hope they come back on time…?

Is a printed email conversation with the parent pinned to the form acceptable at the AEF/VGS and OK as an audit trail?

What’s working best for you?

72

personally, much like the regular TG forms, we have the form available on the website under “downloads”

here parents have been able to print off and complete TG forms as required and send in Johnny and Jane with the correct paperwork.

we’ve not got a flying slot until next month so yet to be “tested” however the forms are on the website, the Cadets have been informed there is a new form to be filled in and our (closed) facebook page which includes some parents has also distributed the instructions on where to find the forms.

i am expecting Cadets to treat these much like a TG form, however rather than bring them on the day the Squadron night immediately preceding the AEF opportunity to be “authorised” (signed) by the OC.
(i am however not the Sqn Flying Officer so will wait to see what happens in reality)

73

The ACTO is very specific about the completed form requirements; all questions must be answered. I would not expect OC AEF to have to deal with a form with an email chain, it defeats the object. What would the messages say? If it is to amplify an answer, then it could cast doubt on the medical validity.

Yes, logistically, the forms will have to be at the sqn earlier for OC signature; planning for reserves will also have to be the same, no “on the day” replacements if anyone drops out.

74

The ACTO is very specific about the completed form requirements; all questions must be answered. I would not expect OC AEF to have to deal with a form with an email chain, it defeats the object. What would the messages say? If it is to amplify an answer, then it could cast doubt on the medical validity.
.[/quote]

In some cases (CCF), there is no choice but for an email trail.

75

No issue there…

I was thinking something along the lines of ’ Dear Sir, Attached is the completed flying form for Cdt J Bloggs. Yours, Mrs K Bloggs.

Print both and pin together. That would allow fulfillment of short-notice opportunities and very late drop-outs to be replaced quite rapidly. Or is a completed form with an email trail replacing the hard signature not good enough for safety / auditing purposes in the Corps?

Not that a <16 cadet could forge a signature or an >16 tell a porky on a form to ensure they go flying, of course… :wink:

76

Expect a revision to the Med Form in the near future. This may well include a change to the form validity (currently one month), & format alterations so that the guidance for a “negative” answer can be clearly read. A hard copy may be considered to augment the Excel version. Some of the text relating to medical conditions may be improved, e.g. relating to “unstable or brittle condition” = what??

The “ATC Sqn/CCF (RAF) Sect Cdr’s responsibility” aspects are seen as a requirement to check the parental responses (rather than to have an insight into medical conditions).

There may well have been insufficient medical screening in the recent past, which resulted in air safety incidents.

77

Tayside*** awarded contract for Flying Scholarships:

*** What if Scotland goes independent?? :S

(Did mine, a loooooong time ago - 30 hrs flying - at Southampton - much closer to home on the IOW!)

78

Make sure your passport is in date!! B)

79

[quote]Full flying by all VGS at own base locations – Jan 16[/quote] :ohmy:
2FTS.

80

[quote=“MikeJenvey” post=20917]Tayside*** awarded contract for Flying Scholarships:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-29142985[/quote]

Good news, I’ve known many happy “scholars” who’ve gone on to better things.

Move them south of the border. Carlisle might be remote enough!

20 hrs for me at Manston.

81

[quote=“the silverback” post=20922][quote]Full flying by all VGS at own base locations – Jan 16[/quote] :ohmy:
2FTS.[/quote]

Simply a joke. Yet more furious anger caused by this organisation.

82

[quote=“pEp” post=20924][quote=“the silverback” post=20922][quote]Full flying by all VGS at own base locations – Jan 16[/quote] :ohmy:
2FTS.[/quote]

Simply a joke. Yet more furious anger caused by this organisation.[/quote]

doesn’t mean there won’t be some full flying at some locations or a partial program at all locations well before that though?

83

That will make it nearly 2yrs to get a slack handful of stringbags back to full flying capability.

What an absolute joke.

84

Full details out as Announcent on Bader Sharepoint; but for those who don’t have access -

BRIEFING ON THE RECOVERY PLAN FOR AIR CADET GLIDING

As you are aware ACO gliding was paused in Apr 14 in order to address airworthiness concerns and a sample fleet of 5 Vigilant and 5 Viking aircraft are currently being ‘baselined’ at RAF Syerston. This work includes a full strip-down and a review of all available paperwork for each aircraft. Once this process is complete, it will provide the evidence on which to demonstrate the airworthiness of the 2 fleets and gliding can recommence
The plan for recovery to full flying after the engineering assurance work is complete comprises 4 parts:
a. All ACCGS staff instructors will regain currency on the Syerston Fleet between Nov and Dec 14

b. VGS staff will regain currency as determined by 2 FTS, initially at Syerston commencing Jan 15

c. VGS staff will carry out SCT and confirm instructional qualifications; initially at 4 Regional Centres (RCs)

d. VGS, once cleared by 2 FTS to operate from their base locations, will recommence cadet flying in stages – initially limited to Gliding Induction Courses before being cleared by CGS/CFS to instruct to solo standard.

In order to facilitate a prompt return to flying, operations will initially be restricted to VGS staffs flying at ACCGS, RAF Syerston, and the 4 RC; Topcliffe, Kirknewton, Hullavington and Little Rissington. During 2015 Wg affiliations to VGSs will be subject to temporary change. This is to ensure an equitable distribution of gliding across the ACO.
The key milestones for the recovery plan, using current assumptions, are:
a. ACCGS QGIs recurrent by Dec 14

b. First VGS staff recurrent by Jan 14 and cleared to fly for own instructor re-currency training

c. Limited cadet flying Gliding induction Courses only, no solo, by selected VGSs – Spring

d. Limited cadet flying Gliding induction Courses/ Gliding Scholarships by selected VGSs – Autumn 15

e Full flying by all VGS at own base locations – Jan 16

The recovery of ACO Gliding is an extremely complicated piece, which WILL be subject to amendment from external influences so we must remain measured and open to change. There is no ‘quick fix . My top priority is to minimise the risk to life to both cadets and staff. No cadets will be flown at a VGS until it has been cleared to operate by ACCGS and CFS during independent assessments and ownership of the Flying Recovery Programme remains with 2 FTS. Each ac will have undergone a rigorous inspection by engineers. Throughout this activity RAFGSA gliding scholarships will remain available for cadets. 2015 is a year for consolidation of the ACO gliding piece with the recovery being undertaken in a measured way. 2016 is the year for developing the ACO Aerospace Centre for Excellence, at RAF Syerston, with gliding taking a leading role. Follow progress on future aerospace activities on ” facebook.com/no2fts”

Original signed

J MIDDLETON
Gp Capt
OC 2 FTS

85

As someone who operates a fairly modern commercial jet aircraft, I am intrigued at the drawn-out timescale necessary to get comparatively simple aircraft back into the air.

It would be useful to have an insight into the precise requirements faced here:

On a complex, modern, commercial aircraft, there are normally mandatory engineering modifications or reviews, such as when an item has higher than normal fail rate issues, or there has been a design improvement. However, I cannot believe that there have been so many such requirements during the life so far for the (basic) Vigilants or Vikings. Of course, the strip-down & review will depend on the number of certified technicians; I don’t know this.

For the return to flying, the currency issues will have to be addressed - but again, without an accurate idea of number of pilots (or the complexity/timescale of planned refresher training), or the availability of suitable airframes, this is again difficult to understand.

I would have a quick guess that there are 55+ Vigilants & 100 Vikings; the Vigilants had modifications from the basic Grob, so probably no real exact comparative model elsewhere. However, the Viking is a basic 2 seat glider; would it be cost (& time effective) to lease an equivalent (or newer) model (10 airframes?) to allow the pure gliding aspects to be resumed quicker? At the very least, they could be used to get staff instructors back into currency much sooner.

86

[quote=“Gunner” post=20927]That will make it nearly 2yrs to get a slack handful of stringbags back to full flying capability.

What an absolute joke.[/quote]
The problem is reading the blurb, the people implimenting it haven’t got to explain it to youngsters eager and read to go.
Now put it up on the noticeboard where gliding details are put and leave it to the cadets to decide, as I can’t be bothered trying to explain it.

87

That’s good news Mike. Some Sqns have a fair number of cadets’ parents with English as a second language, and perhaps no PC or printer at home, which needs to be considered. That then tends to put the OC in the position of having to help interpret and complete the form with the parent(s) on a screen at the Sqn to get the cadet flying. I have discussed the form with a paramedic instructor who thought it was much too ‘technical’ for the average parent in places, so simplification would be good too. I do understand the need for a form to mitigate issues in the air, and in a possible parachute descent, but it has to be fit for purpose across a wide range of households.