A fantastic development for ensuring that the needs of those without a religious outlook can receive the tailored support they need from someone with a shared perspective on the world.
Also great news for making chaplaincy services more neutral and inclusive.
Wonder if āchaplainā is the right word here (maybe itās not even what they have called him, just what the media have said)? Thereās clearly a role for pastoral care for the non-religious and even Iām glad itās being fulfilled.
Iām also not sure that calling a non-religious person āpadreā sets quite the right toneā¦
The article talks about this!
Humanists UK works to increase provision across all sectors, and in every part of the UK. It doesnāt use the word āchaplainā to describe such practitioners, because many understand this to be a Christian-only term, instead preferring ānon-religious pastoral carerā, but some practitioners do have āchaplainā in their job titles, reflecting the practice of their employers.
i think padre is more appropriate title.
my understanding is a padre is a not denominational or specific to any religion. A Padre could be a Rabbi or Imam but would not exclude non Jews or Muslims from seeking solace in the person qualified and in place to provide it.
this is best indicated by Warks&Brum webpage
As a unique role in the organisation, our vision for chaplaincy is to provide appropriate pastoral care for all personnel within the Air Cadets, irrespective of religious belief or status. If youāre a minister or priest of any religion you can apply to become a chaplain at any of our ATC squadrons up and down the country. There are openings for lay ministers such as readers, lay preachers and others who fulfil an authorised ministry in the pastoral work of the parish, circuit or district.
Where appropriate to meet the needs of cadets from non-Christian faiths, clerics from other religions may also be appointed.
I actually object more to the term āpadreā than āchaplainā.
Terms like āchaplainā can evolve over time.
āPadreā (father) feels much more deferential, religious, and patriarchal.
There are quite mixed views on this one though I think.
i guess it depends on experience/approach.
I first heard the term āPadreā once i was a Cadet and only ever in a military setting. The Sqn Padre we had when i was a Cadet while a vicar was not preachy or religious during the āpadre hourā that was in the monthly timetable.
as my first experience of a padre was not a religious experience, but someone who was best placed to discuss various interesting topics (moral dilemmas etc), the fact he was a vicar was simply a coincidence - he only ever showed a religious side during enrolments/open days and other āformalā occasions when he offered a pray for the Squadron.
having grown up and met RAF/Regular Padreās their approach has been much the same as my initial one, even if ATC padreās have been more Christian and Religious. so my association of āpadreā is somewhat skewed based on that āpositiveā impression rather than the historical background to its use
Am i the only one who thinks this should be the default. Traditionally the military leans heavily on religion during ceremonies etc but the modern day id argue theres a larger % that are now non religious.
So day to day theres no reference or requirement to bow to any religion but then individual religious point of contacts are avaliable to use where required.
Like i dont quite know why a fair chunk of Sqns use the local padre for enrolment when in the modern world we are far more diverse than that.
Our policy still dictates the religious link. To quote ACP 20:
- Chaplains are recruited to provide spiritual, moral welfare and pastoral care for all members of the RAFAC. Honorary chaplains are to be accredited church workers/ministers.
and
- Denomination. The candidate must be willing and suitable to work on an interdenominational basis and will be drawn from a Church (the āSending Churchā) which is a member of Churches Together in Britain and Ireland (which includes Presbyterian, Anglican, Episcopal, Roman Catholic, Baptist, Methodist and Congregational Churches). The Squadron Chaplain should be an ordained minister or an authorised lay minister (eg reader, youth worker).
I find the idea of importing a religious leader to enroll my cadets to be balmy.
I did initially try to grow a diverse chaplaincy team of all faiths and beliefs, but was blocked from having a ācompromisedā non-religious chaplain by a wing chaplain, so I binned the idea.
If I couldnāt do it inclusively, I wasnāt doing it.
Iām the leader of the unit and very much capable of handling important ceremonial events in a neutral and inclusive way.
I consider it to be one of the most important roles I have as a unit commander and Iām now really glad I didnāt outsource it.
This is the most objectionable aspect for me, and is why I was particularly angry at having a non-religious chaplain proposal blocked for being ācompromisedā when I first took over.
By the above criteria, I could legitimately be the organisationās first Humanist chaplain.
If youāre telling me itās about pastoral care for our young adults and staff, but weāre flexible enough to appoint a chaplain who is a youth worker or lay reader for their church, then what weāre really admitting is that itās about them being a Christian and backed by a recognised church, and that this should do for all of us regardless of what we believe.
Itās not inclusive and it clearly privileges Christianity above all other religions and beliefs.
Fully support widening (what I will call the chaplaincy for want of a better term, ) to cover more groups in the uk including humanists & non religious but the one point I will make (although admittedly it doesnāt apply in NI or Wales due to disestablishment). Despite the fact that religious observance is declining generally In England & in Scotland there is a state religion established by law (Anglican as represented by the Church Of England & Presbyterian as represented by the Church Of Scotland).
They are the both in their respective areas the formal state religion as established by law so should in my mind have preferential treatment in certain senses. The most obvious in my mind is the Ceremonial of state & in that I include the local war memorial services/national memorial events and so on in England and Scotland should in my mind be led by ministers of those respective churches, that is not to say that other religious/humanist groups can not be involved. All my local services of remembrance are led by a minister of the established religion but have engagement from various other religions & sects and that is also perfectly right and proper.
Bit esoteric but the rights of both these churchās are guaranteed at the accession council & coronation respectively in relation to CofS & CofE & one of those rights is that they are the ānational churchā.
Now does that mean we should only have CofE & CofS ministers ministering to young people inside the ATC no but they are the state religion & that has to be respected in a certain sense even by those of us who donāt follow either of these two branch of many of the Christian religion (& I include my self in that group).
Can the ATC be more welcoming to other faiths & or none yes we can always improve. I have no objections to Chaplains (for want of a better word) of any faiths or none & I know of Sqn who have had non Christian chaplains (admittedly no humanists/non religious one that Iām aware of but I donāt see why one shouldnāt be appointed)
not quite the only one, but i am surprised it has taken this long - i assumed this had already happened.
while not used for their religious expertise, having seen the Padre team work wonders at RIAT, not by preaching to troubled Cadets, but because of their training, experience and ability to empathise they turned around several situation which might have seen a situation worsen.
(this isnāt to say only a Padre can offer such a āserviceā, but certainly at RIAT, as the dedicated team there to provide that service, in much the same way the Radio team are there for Radio expertise, and First Aid team for first aid tretament, having seen the outcomes of their work in turning about the attitudes, behaviours and approaches some Cadets have had at RIAT i have only praise for the team during my time there)
tradition?
much like how Religious leaders are seen at many formal occasions, particularly those military ones on formal ceremonial parades.
as indicated above, this is all i have ever seen it to be, but perhaps because my first experience of a Padre was exactly this and not as a religious preacher.
the ābestā Padres i have met are those that wear a dog collar but you donāt notice it - ie they are great at what they do, and happen to wear the āuniformā of a religious leader, it is not obvious they are a vicar/priest/lay preacher in what they say or do, only in what is worn at their neck.
this isnāt to say i havenāt met some very religious padres. i have. either when moving Squadron or the incumbent Padre moves on they have been replaced, in some cases by a ānewā minister, fresh out of the box and uber keen and so enthusiastic to step up the padre role - only to fall flat as unlike a church setting where the congregation attend voluntary and do so because of their belief, in a Sqn environment, while their attendance is voluntary, it is not because of any faith or religious belief - these padres believe their āpadre hourā is no different to a surmon in church, and misunderstand the role.
I am sure we have all been in situations where we have seen attendance drop off on certain nights because of the planned programme, most often āsports nightā in my experience - but certainly as a Cadet, thanks to an excellent Padre, we never saw the attendance drop off on the āpadre hourā evenings, as the content was interesting, engaging, and rarely, if at all religious.
The Squadron i attended as a Cadet, the townās Remembrance Service, held at the war memorial was taken by each minister from the half dozen or so churches in the town.
While there is only subtle differences between Baptist, Methodist, CofE, Catholic, beliefs, in my mind it seemed an appropriate approach that all were included in the service.
Remembrance is a civic service, and thus does not belong to any one organisation and so by giving all a chance to take an element of the sermon shared it out and showed a degree of equality.
Indeed when I was at University, I attended the local unit, being a major city it was far more diverse and so was not surprised when there were non Christian leaders leading elements of the Remembrance Parade - it seemed fair and appropriate that everyone was included, Remembrance is not a strictly Christian occasion, even if it is the default for most.
I agree, which is why I donāt see the point.
Iāve known staff who are more capable in this regard and arenāt religious leaders (though clearly, they can be religious ā important distinction).
If the best ones are always identified by our people precisely because theyāre not doing religion, itās time for a change.
while i can see your point of view.
i have always taken it that these are still the best people because of their background and training.
while i cannot start to list what training a minister goes through, or what that might cover, all padres and indeed those vicars, priests, lay preachers etc i have met, all come across as having more experience than me to deal with pastoral care situations.
why not lean on the āexpertsā when they are available?
just because they wear a dog collar and you have no belief should not be a reason to dismiss them.
i am not suggesting that only religious leaders are capable of offering pastoral care, but why dismiss an āexpertā/training professional simply based on their belief?
I am completely ignorant to what training minsters undertake, but i am aware there is training and learning and study which they undertake - to my knowledge there is no such similiar course for the non-religious to take which can be pushed across my OC desk to indicate that they are suitably āqualifiedā to provide that service.
i completely agree that pastoral care shouldnāt need to be provided by someone who is readily identified as a religious leader - but given the ease in which they tick the box, and the difficulty in proving competency in the area for those who are not ministers weāre between a rock and a hard placeā¦
I think itās more about the baked-in privilege and I disagree that theyāre the experts.
You only associate this good work with them as a cohort because theyāre the ones doing the work due to historical reasons.
This is nothing against the individuals. Iāve known good ones and bad ones.
But itās simply the point that, anecdotally, whenever I hear someone being really positive about padres theyāre normally defending them with the justification that itās because they donāt even do the religion bit.
Therefore, we should probably look to isolate the actual background and skillset we need and make that something we recruit for. Just be a normal volunteer without the trappings of Christianity.
Iām sure a vicar could then be one of the many volunteers we use in such a role, but theyād be doing it like the rest of us have to as per our volunteer agreement and code of conduct.
Itād be no more relevant to their position than my profession or yours.
I also acknowledge my inconsistency of simultaneously celebrating the more inclusive approach of the MOD while also being in favour of making this stuff fully neutral.
One comes from a place of acknowledging āa step in the right directionā while the other is a view from my current thoughts on the future of this stuff generally.
There should be an āAsk a Padreā app or similar, accessible through MyRAFAC.
Pool the Chaplains into one place, on a rota basis, able to answer questions from cadets on matters of conscience and faith. There could be qualified Humanists on rota too, as well as having the various faiths represented.
Terminology would need working out, to ensure itās inclusive to all, and appropriate safeguards would need to be worked in from the conception stage, but I reckon it would be helpful to a fair few cadets and maybe even some CFAV.
Basically a welfare team.
Itās not a bad idea and could be brought under similar things such as mental health tools, relationship advice and mediation.
Loads of good stuff.
i get that and is a good way of describing the frustration.
but what is the alternative?
i donāt know of any other role in society who are trained and prepared to complete the pastoral role they do.
nor do i know of any qualification that offers competency in that element.
while the situation isnāt perfect as it comes with the packaging of a dog collar and religion, how else, who else is there to approach who has the same approach, training, experience and manner to provide the same care.
by all means we could recruit for āpastoral carer for youth groupā but i doubt anyone but minister would consider it, and if there were those who didnāt wear the dog collar apply, how could we confirm there suitability for the role through competence, experience, training/qualification?
i think this is also because the ābadā ones only do the religious bit.
at least in my experience the least favourable padres treated the Squadron and Cadets as an extension to their Sunday congregation and preached accordingly - ie they didnāt recognise the situation or audience.
the āgood onesā i know still applied the religion during formal occasions, but were able to switch it off for āpadreās hourā.
they can combine all their experience, skills and training as minister, and apply that without referencing religion. they are good because they have the skills and can apply them to the audience appropriately - they can separate themselves from religious teachings and make it more approachable to the Cadets
the irony is the solution would be a humanist minister - but by definition humanist do not met to affirm their (non) āfaithā on a weekly basis to have leaders to call upon.
The closest example would be a humanist celebrants, but their role is not pastoral like it is for minister in the community and so difficult to simply suggest getting in touch with the local humanist celebrant asking if they fancy dropping by once a month as their training is very different/not relevant to a pastoral role. their training is concentrated on weddings, funerals and naming ceremoniesā¦
Kind of, though I guess I am speaking more about questions of faith and belief (although these will likely inform young peopleās mental health outcomes too). Iād also be talking about it having a specific RAFAC or Tri-Cadet Forces flavour.
For general wellbeing and mental health, things like Kooth are already out there and do a good job - I still recommend them for my recent volunteers who have told me theyāre having issues.